A very long post about Marie Claire, sexiness, fat, cashews, and when to intervene

It is brutally hot and humid outside; a hot breeze is blowing, and I can see thunderheads forming over the mountains.  Bits of Hurricane Emily are on their way to Southern California, apparently...

I managed a 20-miler on the bike this morning at the Rose Bowl.   On the downhill side of the Bowl, the heat wasn't bad at all; pushing up the other side, however, was a very sweaty activity.  It was a "two-bottle" ride, even if it didn't take much more than an hour.

I've got plenty of grading to do, as well as writing for some other projects, but did want to put up a brief Friday post.

Nemohee and Kameron Hurley both link to (and provide fine commentary on) this interesting experiment from Marie Claire magazine:

Does your attitude about your body influence the way other people see you?

We photographed a gorgeous, size-14 model in a neutral pose and made the unretouched photos into two mobile billboards. Then we gave each billboard a vastly different message: one confident ("I think I'm sexy. Do you?"), one unsure ("I think I'm fat. Do you?"). We asked everyone who saw these billboards to visit MarieClaire.com and tell us what they thought. Here's how 4,000 people reacted.

Here's the link to the "I think I'm fat" billboard; 55% of those who saw it agreed with the professed self-assessment of model Nicole.

Here's the link to the "I think I'm sexy"  billboard; 66% of those who saw this one agreed with Nicole's statement.

Marie Claire used these reactions to make a fairly superficial but no doubt useful point about how our own self-perception shapes other's responses to our body:

"When someone has never met you before, they look for any signals that will help them decide what they think about you," says (psychologist Ann) Demarais. "The first words you say will be perceived as the 'real you.'" When a woman describes her body as fat, she immediately introduces a negative vibe that other people pick up on. "Pointing out your perceived flaws draws attention to something that may not be true," says Dr. Demarais. "Without any facts to go on, people will form an opinion based on whatever limited information you give them."

Similarly, calling yourself "sexy" sends a positive message to others -- and that translates into attractiveness. "A confident attitude puts other people at ease. In turn, they're more likely to see you in a positive light," explains Dr. Demarais. "It's what psychologists call 'mood contagion.' The attitude you project when you meet someone is the emotion they begin to feel themselves, and they project that feeling back onto you." The bottom line? "You have the power to control what other people think of you."

Well, it's an interesting experiment.  Kameron doesn't make much comment, but she does title the  post in which she links to Marie Claire "Am I Fat or Sexy?  (Implying one can't be both)."  That's right on, Kameron.  (Kameron also has this powerful personal post about weight and eating).  It's not as if the two self-assessment statements are mutually exclusive!  Fat and sexy are not opposites.  "Sexy" and "unsexy" are; so too are "fat" and "skinny."   I doubt it was the magazine's intent to suggest that "sexy fat" is an oxymoron, but that's certainly the impression with which one is left after reading the account of the experiment and reading folks' reactions.

Marie Claire and I came to different conclusions.  The magazine article creates a bit of a straw man, namely the idea that it ought to be odd that folks agreed with both the "I think I'm fat" and the "I think I'm sexy" statements.  But what if a great many of those who responded to the billboards weren't so much influenced by what Nicole said about herself as they were acknowledging what should be fairly bloody obvious:  that a woman can be overweight according to the  generally accepted standards of our culture, but still be sexually desirable?   Why couldn't they reach that conclusion without being influenced by the model's self-assessment?  Hell, it's the conclusion I reached.  I look at Nicole's picture and I see an attractive woman whom I happen to think is slightly over an ideal weight.   That's hardly a contradictory response, is it?

I've taught entire courses on body image.  I integrate material on body image into my women's studies class each semester.  Just last week, I posted about my own ongoing "body dysmorphia" and my summer campaign to drop more weight and get into better shape.  Obviously, I've given a lot of thought to the issue on both a personal and a professional level for years and years. 

I hate the word "fat."  It's as damaging a word as I know.  Almost every year, I spend some time asking my girls (the ones in my high school youth group) which words hurt them the most. "Fat"  always wins by a country mile.  "Slut", "bitch", even "cunt" lack the power to wound that "fat" has been given in our culture.  To paraphrase what I've heard from many, "If someone calls me a slut, I can know they're full of shit; if someone calls me fat, a part of me always, always believes them."  (For the boys, of course, the deadly word is "fag"; interesting that only one little letter seems to separate the two most painful terms we can hear in high school.)

But those of us who work with young people -- and who care about the self-image of everyone, male and female, young and old, have to walk a difficult line.  When someone calls herself or himself "fat", my first response is automatic:  "Don't say that.  You're not fat."  The person could be 400 pounds, and that's what I'd feel compelled to say.  But when we work with the young, we have to be concerned with two things simultaneously:  their self-esteem and their health.  If we concentrate only on the former, do we run the real risk of ignoring legitimate health concerns?  If all we seek to do is make every teen feel comfortable in his or her own skin, are we really doing our job?

I've worked with kids who were compulsive over-eaters; I've worked with anorexics.  Having struggled with bulimic behavior myself in my younger years, I'm fairly quick to pick up on it.  Spend enough time with kids at camp and on retreats, and you get good at seeing who uses eating as a drug, and who uses food-deprivation in almost exactly the same way.   God's honest truth, I feel much more comfortable doing an intervention with an emaciated anorexic or an average-weight bulimic than I do with a heavy-set over-eater!   When a kid is underweight and not eating, I suppose I tend to see the problem as more serious than when a kid is medicating himself or herself with an entire large pizza.   I notice I'm not the only one; there is far more material out there for youth workers on how to address anorexia than there is over-eating!   Of course, I "get" the mindset of the anorexics and the bulimics a bit better, and when appropriate, can share some of my own experiences. 

(Parenthetically and autobiographically, I remember the "low-point" for me with my eating issues.  It was early 1993, and  I'd gotten down below 150 pounds.  I was single, studying for my written and oral Ph.D. qualifying exams at UCLA.  I lived alone in a tiny bachelor apartment in West L.A.   It was Valentine's weekend, and I was lonely and depressed.  I walked up to a nearby Smart n' Final store and bought my favorite binge food in the world: salted cashews.  I bought a huge, 5-pound tub.  I took it home with a 2-liter plastic bottle of diet Coke, and settled down to work. I ate two pounds, tried to throw up, failed.  I took the tub of cashews out to the dumpster behind the apartment building, and tossed it in.  I went for a run, came back, and tried to calm myself down.  But I couldn't stop thinking about the cashews.  At 11:00 that night, I went outside in my bare feet, climbed into the massive dumpster, and poked through the garbage until I found my tub.  And right there, shivering in the cold and surrounded by disgusting food waste and empty cans -- wearing only boxers -- I ate half of what remained.  I finally dragged myself to bed, in tears.  It was, as they say, "hitting bottom".  And though I haven't dumpster-dived in a dozen years, I'll never forget what I felt that night.)

But though I was "soft" in high school and early college years, I was never truly heavy.  I come from a family with many heavy-set people, and that has no doubt contributed to my own body issues.  But my lack of personal experience with being overweight as an adult has made it more difficult for me to work with kids who are struggling with that particular issue.  After all, there's such a damn thin (no pun intended) line there!  Not every kid who's heavy, even very heavy, is heavy for the same reason.  Some may have eating disorders, but others may indeed be genetically pre-disposed to obesity.  (I don't know enough about obesity, frankly, to know the difference.)   When I see an emaciated girl eating only salad for three straight days on a retreat, I have no trouble identifying a problem -- and no trouble intervening in a professional and loving fashion.   When I see an overweight young boy going back for a third helping of ice cream on that same retreat, I don't know what to do.  Sometimes all I do is roll my eyes at another youth leader, and that doesn't leave me feeling good.

Sigh, I've really wandered here! 

As a pro-feminist man and the son of a feminist mother who has struggled with weight issues over much of her adult life, I'd like to think I'm very sensitive to the subject of women and weight.  I'm as angry as anyone else at the ridiculously narrow standard of beauty for women in our culture.  I see the damage it does to the self-esteem of so many girls and women, and I grieve that.   I want my mother, my sisters, my fiancee, my future daughters, my students and my youth group girls to love their bodies, confident in their own skin, at peace with their own flesh.   But when I think of my own future kids, I know I want them to grow up healthy and athletic and strong.  I know that "healthy, athletic, and strong" come in a variety of sizes, but not an infinite variety.  Some young people are simply too thin to be healthy; some are too heavy.  And those of us who love them have to be equally willing to intervene with both extremes.  And my fear of wounding a child's self-image, combined with my own issues, means I'm still more willing to intervene with those at one end of that spectrum.

 

Comments

[Antigone]

The funny thing is, if you say your sexy enough times, eventually you'll believe it.

Growing up, I always had body-issue problems, especially since I started devoluping WAY early then most girls (the only ten year old that had breasts in my school). I wasn't fat, and I still don't think I'm really all that unhealthy, but I have curves, and especially rounded ones.

When I was little I used to think I was ugly/fat/unattractive, et cetera. One day, I finally took a friends advice, and every day, I'd look into the mirror and go "Damn, I look good". Starting, fully clothed and finally working to the point where I can say so naked. Now, I feel more attractive, and I think peopel pick up on that. But then again, I grew up with a very open mother who is not but any stretch of the imagination anything but heavy (and still, very beautiful) so I had more realistic ideas of what women were supposed to be. But, the point is, if you repeat something enough times, or have it repeated to you, eventually you will believe it. Instead of focusing on all my flaws (acne, bigs hips and thighs, tummy) I focus on what looks good on me (Beautiful eyes, full lips, beautiful shiny soft hair, large breasts). And suddenly, I feel more attractive, and people respond to that.

Besides, does it really hurt anyone to look at the mirror, pose, look yourself straight in the eye and go "Damn, I look good?"

[sophonisba]

Not every kid who's heavy, even very heavy, is heavy for the same reason. Some may have eating disorders, but others may indeed be genetically pre-disposed to obesity.

Most fat people fall into neither category, of course.

When I see an overweight young boy going back for a third helping of ice cream on that same retreat, I don't know what to do.

Luckily, I do, and I will share my knowledge with you: nothing.
Sometimes the polite thing and the ethical thing coincide, happily. But if you must point out to him that he is fat, since he has probably never noticed it before, it would be better to speak to him to his face than to mock him behind his back - which, as you note, doesn't make you feel good. It probably doesn't do much for him, either.

[Hugo]

Sophonisba, it is never ethical, ever, ever, ever, for someone in youth work to fail to act when a child is engaging in potentially injurious behavior. If we warn kids about every other thing that can hurt them (and are legally required to intervene), what ought we to do with overeating? Are you that willing to minimize the health consequences? No one disputes the link between obesity, blood pressure, heart disease and so forth. On an ethical level, why should we intervene with the drug addict and not with the kid who uses sugar as a drug, when both behaviors can do demonstrable harm to the body? (Leaving aside issues of legality?) Anorexia can kill, but so too can serious obesity, right?

I agree completely that the eye-rolling at overeating is inappropriate.

[sophonisba]

Hugo - I am willing - eager, even - to minimize the health consequences of eating ice cream at a retreat. I admit, I am not quite certain what those consequences might be, but I will stipulate that there are some. I don't think that they justify watching someone eat and commenting on it, whatever they may be.

I will say, furthermore, that mild obesity is not a problem (and what I mean by mild, is: not so obese as to interfere with a person's ability to climb several flights of stairs, run for the bus, carry heavy groceries several miles, or fit (even if uncomfortably) in public transport seating.)

And since you mentioned both the "heavy" and the "very heavy," I don't know exactly how many of these people you consider to have health risks and problems. If that pretty size 14 model was a student of yours, would you feel an urge to intervene? If she was your daughter? I have no idea what you consider acceptable fatness. But the real issue is - what would you tell her (or the ice-cream eating boy) that their doctors have not already said with much more authority, or their peers with more emotional impact? Anorexics can fool doctors for a while; fat kids can't. There is nothing you could possibly tell them they don't already know, except perhaps that their counselors, teachers, and other authority figures are watching what they eat and looking at their bodies, and making judgments about their qualities. I do believe that's a lesson they can do without.

[Hugo]

The judgment, yes, you're right. And I am normally very, very, very good about that.

Obviously, the part that I should have added to this post was this -- on a retreat, the impact we can have is to make things safer for everyone by limiting the amount of available sugary, fatty foods. That IS within our purview, and can be done without creating an atmosphere where a kid ends up feeling shamed.

[Sally]

There is nothing you could possibly tell them they don't already know, except perhaps that their counselors, teachers, and other authority figures are watching what they eat and looking at their bodies, and making judgments about their qualities. I do believe that's a lesson they can do without.

Yeah, no kidding.

You cannot cure a kid who is compulsively overeating. Making that kid self-conscious about eating is only going to make the problem worse. At the risk of sounding harsh, you're more or less the last person in the world who I think should be counseling such a kid about food issues. I think you're best off concentrating on the kid's good qualities and teaching him or her that there are more important things about a person than the shape of his or her body.

[Hugo]

That's actually comforting, Sally, rather than harsh. I suppose I'm guilty of expecting myself to be able to do it all with these kids, able to connect with absolutely everything. I have to remember that I haven't "done it all" and haven't walked in everyone's shoes... more to the point, I need to remember that my perpetual desire to intervene isn't always helpful. Frequently, it's a great asset -- but it can become a liability, obviously.

It's always hard for me to let things be... and the more I work with teens, the harder it gets. And rereading my post (posted in haste, stream-of-consciousness) I realized that for every intuitive flash, for every bit of empathy, there's a healthy dose of myopia and obtuseness to go along...

[Antigone]

Got a question for you Hugo...

Would it bother you as much if it was the skinny kid going back for thirds on the ice cream?

[Amanda]

I'm 5'7". I weigh 125 pounds. When I get called fat, I believe it. I have no idea what to do about this, I really don't. Fat activists make sense to me--they reclaim the word, make it mean something. And then I feel bad feeling bad about the word "fat". But when it's flung as an insult, I still shudder.

As for the eating of the salad, be careful. A lot of thin women don't need to be told they are too thin. That too can cut to the bone.

[Antigone]

On what planet are you fat, Amanda? Jesus, if you're fat, than I'm a heifer.

Unless you have hollow bones or something, you are skinnny!

[shannon]

Amanda is in fact quite slender, judging from her height and weight. I'm 5 feet and a hundred pounds, and I am far from fat. Has anyone here read Unbearable Weight? Because I'm reminded of Bordo's argument that now it's not enough just to be slender, you have to be have a hard body. There's always a new standard that is impossible to live up to, such as the populairity of the top heavy body. (i.e. a stick with basketballs)

[Amanda]

My point being that the insult sort of has power beyond any bounds of reality. Plus, of course, no matter how thin a woman is, she still has things like cellulite and flab that is completely excised from most photos we see of women's bodies, leading people to the false impression that their body is freakishly flabby. I also am just a curvy build and unfortunately, there's a certain brand of spoiled white male that is enamored of the flat ass Paris Hilton look. When exposed to lots of that sort in college, it did a number on my self-esteem, even if they weren't explicit about their distaste.

In retrospect, I realize that the distaste for curvier women speaks volumes about certain anxieties of a certain economic class. Curviness is earthy--the men (boys really) who disdained me confused me because I could also see that they had desires there as well. Now I realize the desire begets the anger. Sex is a physical thing, a reminder of our mortality, etc., and so the "ideal" woman in magazines and whatnot is razor-thin and as desexualized as a sex object can get. As if we can de-flesh and hyper-intellectualize sex until it no longer reminds us of mortality.

Okay, I've waxed philosophical. Doesn't take much coffee for me to start doing that.

[Emily H.]

But when we work with the young, we have to be concerned with two things simultaneously: their self-esteem and their health. If we concentrate only on the former, do we run the real risk of ignoring legitimate health concerns? If all we seek to do is make every teen feel comfortable in his or her own skin, are we really doing our job?

I don't think so. Because, as has been said already, when someone's fat, they know it. They're painfully aware of it. For me, at least... to eat in a healthful way, I have to respect my body. I don't eat awfully unless I've already "given up" on my body. When I feel comfortable in my own skin, I can start thinking of my body as something that can push my bike up six miles of hills, or walk to the grocery store and back, or swim... and then my body starts being a part of me, and not just a shell I walk around in. And I can feed it better.

I've had two or three "interventions" in gym class about my truly terrible, horrible performance. (We had to run 15-minute miles every day to pass the class. I ran 14:30 miles every day, and scraped by with a C). It was totally demoralizing because it felt like harping on something that I just couldn't do anything about. Don't get me wrong, I think that a youth group leader is probably in a much better position to say something than a gym coach, but still...dangerous, and maybe counterproductive, ground.

[Dana]

I bought a cheap full length mirror at Walmart, and took it home and leaned it against my wall. When I look in this mirror, I appear taller and thinner than I acutally am. Thus, I leave the house thinking that I look GREAT! And when I go places, that attitude follows me. No one really cares, anyhow, how I look - with the exception of me.

a simple trick - but it works for me!

[mythago]

Amada, I don't think that particular spoiled breed is operating on a preference for Paris Hilton vs. big butts. That mentality is all about using insults to put down women and show who's boss. I'm sure you've seen this phenomenon with guys who'll hit on you, and then when you turn them down, call you you a fat ugly bitch.

I'm 5'7". I weigh 125 pounds

There's another thing--the whole weight issue. Weight means virtually nothing. I am slightly below 'average' weight. I weigh perhaps five pounds more than I did fifteen years ago.

Wow, impressive! Three kids and fifteen years and I've only gained five pounds! Of course, fifteen years ago I was physically very active and was in great physical shape, and had a much higher proportion of muscle to fat--but nobody looks at anything but the numbers on the scale.

[Amanda]

That mentality is all about using insults to put down women and show who's boss. I'm sure you've seen this phenomenon with guys who'll hit on you, and then when you turn them down, call you you a fat ugly bitch.

Exactly. Very much exactly. I think, in a roundabout way, that's what I was aiming at. You cut to chase so well. Desire is a messy thing that leaves one vulnerable. Men have power over women in most ways and so having to bow to ask a woman for her affection or even to feel that your desire for her in any way gives her a modicum of power means that many men lash out. I've very much had men throw themselves at me, get rejected and claim I was ugly. But I was reaching more for those who pre-emptively take control by leaning on an unattainable figure for women to "achieve" so that they never have to worry about the potential humiliation of being an honest person, reaching out to another with desire and possibly getting rejected.

[mythago]

But I was reaching more for those who pre-emptively take control by leaning on an unattainable figure for women to "achieve" so that they never have to worry about the potential humiliation of being an honest person, reaching out to another with desire and possibly getting rejected.

Good point. I remember reading a NYT magazine piece by a guy whose bitter friend had, in his opinion, rather high standards for women. The friend would not acknowledge that perhaps he was unreasonable and trying to prevent rejection. That is, until the day that the guy and his friend spotted an attractive blond, friend found picky things about her that made her 'unattractive,' and then they realized she was Kim Basinger.

[incar_nadine]

Wow, lots of good points being made, as is so often the case here.

A difficult situation, in truth. Can comments by a youth worker have a harmful impact? Yes. Could a youth worker have a positive impact on this issue? Also yes. But perhaps this would take a lot longer and would rule out the "one comment based on one observed incident" option.

And yes, relatively thin people who have big issues around their own weight are not always the best people to help others who are not thin. I have a few dear friends this makes me think of. They've always been very positive about my body image, but then, I'm not noticeably fat. They know they shouldn't be fat-phobic, but they still haven't been able to rid themselves of some of those tendencies.

As the life partner of a stout/fat man who loves to cycle, and having some very thin friends and relatives with eating issues, I've become interested in finding more information on fat-and-fit research. There are a lot of indications that your health is far more determined by healthy eating and a healthy level of exercise than by whether you are fat, medium, or thin.

Makes sense to me. Of course, then you have to define healthy eating, and healthy exercise ...

[Cleis]

If Hugo is concerned that a child's returning for a third bowl of ice cream is a signal that the child is unhappy and using food to self-medicate - rather than, say, a celebration of being at camp and away from parents' watchful eyes; I remember my cousins and I daring each other to keep drinking the red Kool-Aid we never got at home - then I think Hugo could try to find out what's bothering the child without ever mentioning the "symptom," i.e. the excessive ice cream eating. As others have said, if the child is fat, he knows he's fat, and he probably feels bad about it, given our culture's hatred of fat. If the child is self-medicating with food, that feels bad, too, as many of us know. But if, in another context, Hugo could talk with the child and discover whether he's lonely, homesick, or anxious, then Hugo could address the child's distress without mentioning the ice cream, which is, after all (at least in our imagined case), only a symptom. If the child is self-medicating, then feeling better after a loving intervention by an adult will lead to lower ice-cream consumption.

And, as someone here mentioned, an adult in Hugo's position must be able to tell whether someone is trying to eat away their sorrow without that determination being based on the size of the child's body. A fat kid might be eating for fun. A thin kid might be eating with plans to purge later.