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June 09, 2005

Comments

mythago

It has become clear to me that some cultures apparently have different standards of attribution and different notions of what is acceptable "borrowing."

I wonder if it has more to do with standards of succeeding: "Get the A. Period."

Caelius Spinator

I am told that there is a similar ethnic preference for plagiarism at my institution.

susan

Is there the possibility that these particular ethnic groups are a more substantial part of your particular region overall? Just a thought--I'm sure you've considered this.

After struggling through sixty pages of essays in last semester's Western Civ II, I can well understand the need for research, but cannot understand the non-crediting of quoted material. With software programs these days, it's so easy to footnote.

I have, however, not posted any of my essays on my weblog anymore the way I used to, in an effort to help cut down on plagiarism. I still get loads of hits on some literature essays or mere thoughts I've posted a year and a half ago on Cheever's "The Swimmer" among others.

Hugo

Oh, we have a huge East Asian and Armenian population, Susan; we also have a very large Latino student body. But for whatever reason, I have far fewer plagiarizers (at least obvious ones using the 'net) among the latter group.

susan

It may very well be ethnic beliefs, then. It will be harder to overcome because it is not believed to be wrong no matter what the teacher says. Just as religious martyrdom and murder--in relation to current terrorist acts--is not understood by other cultures.

BTW, with more institutions presenting weblogs as academic journals, the essay and plagiarism problem is only going to increase. That's why some of my essays were weblogged--as part of a course requirement.

Hugo

But though the net may make plagiarism easier, it also makes it easier to catch!

Xrlq

Why only report those plagiarizers who contest the grade? Do you punish dishonesty, or just chutzpah?

Hugo

I figure the F is sufficient punishment in most instances, XRLQ.

Xrlq

Is it? Wouldn't they get the same F if they hadn't turned in anything at all? If so, it sounds like about as much of a punishment as it would be to make a bank robber give his loot back.

djw

I'm with XRLQ--I don't care so much what grade they get; the important thing is that the act of plagiarism is explicitly noted on their record. A paper trail so that the multiple offenders can get the expulsion or suspension they so richly deserve.

(Although, XRLQ, in some cases the non-plagiarized work they did earlier in the quarter might have been sufficient to warrant a low passing grade, so it might be a bit more punishment than your analogy suggests).

Peter

I wonder how many incidents of 'plagiarism' you discovered in your 'wymyn's studies', uhm, 'courses'. Of course, you wont report those, at least not honestly.

If they contest the F, I'll happily turn their finals over to the division dean, and a notation of academic dishonesty will go on their permanent records.

Oooh, you're sooooo tough! What sort of procedure is available for contesting your determination of alleged 'academic dishonesty'? Indeed, you display a hell of a lot of academic dishonesty just by 'teaching' bullshit classes like 'wymyn's history.'

I want very badly to avoid suggesting that some ethnic groups are more prone to academic dishonesty than others, but the evidence I've gathered in years of teaching (and what I've heard anecdotally from colleagues) makes it hard to come to another conclusion.

Hah, another lame claim! If you wanted 'very badly' to avoid suggesting that, then you wouldn't have identified the racial and ethnic backgrounds of the purported 'culprits'.

Don't be ridiculous and, for heaven's sake, get over yourself!

Hugo

Peter, I always write down the source from which the student plagiarized his or her paper, and if challenged, provide it as evidence. No student goes beyond that.

I have had plagiarism in women's studies classes on several occasions, and in my gay and lesbian history course. I just teach far fewer of these gender courses. Also, the final exams for women's studies are in-class; the finals for my other courses are take-home (and thus easier to plagiarize.)

I think an F is very signficant punishment -- it does a number on someone's GPA. If I filed paperwork with the dean on every plagiarizer, I'd be swamped for a week.

Stephanie

I'm not really sure but I think that there might be something about E. Asian culture where they are actually permitted to use the words of others. As students, they are encouraged to defer to those who are deemed more knowledgable and this is not considered "plagarism". Or something like that I think.

Hugo

Stephanie, I've heard that as well -- which is why I am so clear "up front" with them. I allow my students to quote extensively; up to 25% of their papers can be quotations (used in a way that fits in with their argument), but they must cite their sources.

tekanji

Once again, the culprits were all of East Asian or Armenian ancestry.

Approximately what percentage of East Asian and Armenian ancestry students make up your class?

I ask this because I just graduated with an Asian Studies degree and the East Asians always outnumbered the non-East Asians in my classes by a significant amount. Because of this, if one of my profs were to cite that there was an overwhelming number of East Asians plagiarizing I wouldn't be surprised, simply because they were the dominant ethnicity in the class.

Hugo

Oh, gosh, I'd say that these two groups make up 35-40% of my students; they make up about 80-90% of those I've caught plagiarizing these last few years.

Let me say, in the interests of further clarification in what is an awkward discussion, that the students who tend to have the most problems here are often the ones with the poorest English language skills. (This makes catching them remarkably easy.) I'd be more sympathetic if I hadn't been so explicit about not plagiarizing. And let me say yet again that the vast majority of my students of all backgrounds -- to the best of my knowledge -- are honest as can be.

Jonathan Dresner

XLRQ: institutions vary in their handling of plagiarism. Mine has no mechanism for an instructor to impose or request a penalty greater than failure for the course, unless the student contests the penalty, at which point Deans, vice-chancellors and judicial councils are involved. Very few institutions have any mechanism for noting something like plagiarism unless it goes through a full-bore judicial process (and there have been lawsuits contesting such permanent records). At times, I've notified a student's advisor, but my current institution has such a weak advising system that it's just not worth it in most cases; telling anyone in administration would be a total waste of time.

Yes, it is evidence of failing to take the problem sufficiently seriously. Yes, we could do more. No, I have no idea how to go about changing it at this point in my career.

I am less certain of the ethnic issues: In my own experience it is the students with the weakest HS preparation and the ones with the greatest professional ambition who are most likely to plagiarize. Or, to put it another way, it is those who are unable to get what they want (passing the class; excelling in GPA) any other way who are most likely to take this particular shortcut.

Lindsay

Not being of eather of these decents, but having good friends who are, I think it might have something to do with the culture and the pressure that they put on students and getting an "A" not nessasrly learning a lot but having it in paper that they did well. While my parents were more interested that I understood the materal and could put it to use.

I dont blame you for giving them an "F" This is just my little theory.

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