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May 20, 2005

Comments

joe

If I were thinking of a rhetorical equivalent, it would have been closer to Stalinist Communism, a leftist extreme. ;)

Diversity in education is like the tired canard “more is better”. Many still hold fast to diversity as the ideal in education. The concept has permeated so far as to be antiliberal. Diversity exists outwardly and potently to the extent that few recognize its many disadvantages. Do we really need a porn class? A gay and lesbian course? A Chicano American etc. studies course in undergrad, or even lower division education ( though I could see some variety in upper division courses). Public education has been watered down for the disadvantaged and is being further watered down by diversity. So instead of focusing on those already at a loss, educators further dumb students down by ensuring an early and well diversified education. For example, instead of reading and writing about traditional literature in an introductory writing course, one may read a half talented writer whose subject is multiculturalism--emulate this and not that. Here’s one in your field. Introduction to American Government, is now about political socialization and the vast diversity of ideas. The structure and formation of how and why WE have arrived where WE are is fading.

Why is this happening? Or why doesn’t Traditionalism and or Conservatism hold equal, or near equal weight in the diversity of ideals. Is it a myth that the social sciences are inundated with “liberalism”. Are my experiences leading me astray? I live in Southern California, I am diversified beyond tolerance and my skin is as thick as an elephant. I am ready for a good education now, not a diversified one.

My question should have been straight forward. At a community college with a truly diversified and enlightened administration, faculty, social or political ideal do you think a class on pornography would be allowed to be taught, should it be taught?

Anyways, being well rounded is like the “jack of all trades”. I probably extrapolated meaning far beyond your comment and my apologies if I did.

Hugo

Believe me, joe, if I had wanted to teach it, it would have been taught. Having taught gay and lesbian history (in fall 2005, I'll teach it again), I'm no stranger to trouble. It would be allowed -- but should it be allowed?

What standards would you employ to suggest that it shouldn't?

joe

Hold them horses, Hugo. Back up! Your assumptions betray you, diversity, and liberalism. You say“…if I had wanted to teach it, it would have been taught” would that be totalitarianism? Was the offering of the class debated among a truly diverse and enlightened faculty and administration? Should the community have some say also in the matter? Would you welcome the challenge of referendum or are the masses not up to the intellectual acuity of the wealth and importance of a Gay and Lesbian course in a community college.

“…I'll teach it again), I'm no stranger to trouble.” take some of that courage and teach a white nationalist or white separatist course (your allowed to grow your hair out too, but don‘t challenge any in your youth ministry J )--or even another separatist or minority and conservative leaning cause as example. I’m thinking of the academic sort of Carol Swain’s book, The New White Nationalism, but you would have to edit much of her research--it would be hard for many to swallow what she is uncovering ( I don‘t mean to be throwing the book at you or anyone else). I think it would be a great start, and alternative to multiculturalism and racism, and furthering the engagement of diverse ideas. It could help youth to define what is important to be learned or cultured in the mass marketed term of multiculturalism, i.e. do we need groups like Mecha, BSA, or Spartacus to understand and appreciate pluralism or celebrate individual identity.

So, “What standards would you employ to suggest that it shouldn't?” is not really a question you and I don’t know. From what side do we pull the diversity curtain? The current engagement begs reproach!

joe

the "J" after ministry was a smile on the word processor

djw

Good lord. I first posted in this thread because someone compared a sexually explicit newspaper column, and now Hugo teaching a class on porn is totalitarianism. Can we all just step back and agree that whatever we think of how American universities handle topics related to sex, it's just not in the same league as political opression?

I took Hugo's confidence as simply a statement about his ability to get a new course approved given the institutional hurdles. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I've said before, Joe, I'm in no position to engage in a curricular debate about PCC with you. More obviously isn't always better, and one perspective often falls quite short. Designing a good course is a balance between including lots of good stuff and allowing sufficient time to cover in depth. I can't fathom why you think studying the history and culture of certain ethnic groups inherently and necessarily means "watering things down." You must have a pretty low opinion of the discipline of anthropology, since that's pretty much all they do.

joe

could we keep sex and sexual orientation somewhere else other then the universities

i wouldn't call a speed bump a hurdle.

i think this debate goes beyond PCC

i am not at all concerned with the design or quality of a course that many others also would think inappropriate or unnecessary.

maybe my argument wasn't clear. i'll take the blame. but if schools (specifically JCs, and and cal state equivalents) were more apt to teach good reading, writing, and critical thinking skills by quality examples other then using these same platforms to spread poor "liberal" nonsense or maybe also genrel ed electives like history but then gay or porn studies is really going to get me abest job. i sure am glad however though of my whale roundness makes me abetter person and so you see the importance of good eduction at lower level of the great ivory tower of academia.

read any of these types of papers. i have read graduate student work not much better. how did they ever get a degree. what went wrong? i guess you could continue to idealize or proclaim all's well here--we be enlightened.


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