« Women, age, and the Oscars --UPDATED | Main | My new hero »

February 08, 2005

Comments

emmy

Sheelzebub,

Do you always feel the need to defend someone else?

And what's wrong with reading this site for "entertainment"? Helps to brighten my day at work. I love to get up the nose of people such as yourself. Helps to sharpen my reasoning skills.

Oh, and here is something else to chew on.(For all those pro-feminist/ pro-lifers and gay rights activists....)

If only your mother had had an abortion, or your daddy had been gay... YOU wouldn't be here for me to argue with!

cmc

I have always had an instinctive suspicion of men who complain about the fact that "women don't want to date a nice guy like me," but earlier I could not articulate why I felt that way. I think that Jeff hit the nail on the head with his observation that such comments "presuppose a level of entitlement . . . " -- a level of entitlement that women like me find off-putting.

emmy

sorry... oops... I meant pro-feminist/pro-CHOICE.
MY MISTAKE.

Obtestor

Finally, nothing I've "done" to hugo compares to the shoot-ups I've had with MRAs.

I am an MRA. One of the best. Bring it on, hon.

Obtestor

sarah t

emmy: my father is gay and my mother had an abortion. I'm still here.

Hugo Schwyzer

Emmy, you mean there are other pro-feminist/pro-life men who support gay rights out there? Where?

Typhonblue, thanks for coming by. I don't post at Stand Your Ground because it isn't a civil environment. I honor Amp's decision to do so, but I am not going to join in on that.

Most of your commenting here was done while I was in England, and unable to respond. I'd welcome your participation here -- yours is a most unusual perspective.

Hugo Schwyzer

Sarah, thanks for that!

Obtestor

Do you always feel the need to defend someone else?

She is always welcome with open arms to defend the legions of victimized men at the hands of radical feminism whenever she feels inclined to. We are not discriminatory. ;)

Obtestor

Rebecca

Something that needs to be set out for this discussion to make any sense would be a definition of "nice guy." There's a reason that it's in quotes. It's because these men call themselves nice, in fact their motto is "nice guys always finish last." And in fact they do, because "nice guys" suck.

Good men love women, good men are kind, good men are caring and loving and sharing and communicative. Good men would never contemplate abusing their partners, good men are in fact a lot like good women. Good men also have spines and opinions of their own - they have convictions and passions and hobbies and personalities.

"Nice guys" on the other hand, at least the ones who self-identify as such are passive-aggressive assholes. They don't see women as real people - just objects to worship and adore. They lack a sense of self, they lack responsibility, they lack passion and interest. They are not people that anyone wants to hang out with. Which explains rather handily why they don't get dates.

Most women don't want to date either "nice guys" or jerks, they want good men.

typhonblue

Obtestor says: "'Finally, nothing I've "done" to hugo compares to the shoot-ups I've had with MRAs.'

I am an MRA. One of the best. Bring it on, hon.

Obtestor"

Sorry, sweetcheeks. I always give my opponents a fighting chance. In your case, the opportunity to actually read the essay I wrote.

The Neverending Whine

emmy

"emmy: my father is gay and my mother had an abortion. I'm still here."

But, your potential brother or sister is NOT.

And was your father "gay" when you were conceived? I think there would be another word for your father then.

Obtestor

I have always had an instinctive suspicion of men who complain about the fact that "women don't want to date a nice guy like me," but earlier I could not articulate why I felt that way.

I have always had an instinctive suspicion of women who remain in abusive relationships. Those women are so damaged from the longevity of the abuse suffered that a 'nice guy' couldn't realistically establish a normal and happy relationship with such a female.

Many women find ideological stability in abusive relationships with bad boys. That does not reflect negatively in any way upon the status of nice guys, no matter how badly the damaged female wants it to.

Obtestor

Obtestor

There's a reason that it's in quotes. It's because these men call themselves nice, in fact their motto is "nice guys always finish last." And in fact they do, because "nice guys" suck.

Nice guys finish first. I am a nice guy. I have many women who would love to marry me.

The 'nice guys finish last' attitude among men are simply men that have social inadequacies which result from societal pressures that prevent them from forming healthy social circles with women. Women are also responsible for that because women could recognize who those men are and embrace them with love and nurturing. There are large clusters of women in America who now equate basic interpersonal relationships with resources. Before these women realise that the Porche isn't going to show up in the driveway to greet them like Hollywood says it is, they become undesireable themselves to men later. So the guys that do finish last have plenty of company from the opposite gender.

But make no mistake, nice guys, honest, nice guys, find no shortage of women.

Obtestor

Obtestor

Sorry, sweetcheeks. I always give my opponents a fighting chance. In your case, the opportunity to actually read the essay I wrote.

Yes, and it deserves the Guiness Book of World Records award for the most logic fallacies ever compiled into a written paper.

Obtestor

typhonblue

"Yes, and it deserves the Guiness Book of World Records award for the most logic fallacies ever compiled into a written paper.

Obtestor"

No debate?

Aw, shucks.

Obtestor

No debate?

I love debating. Look at the amount of time I spent writing about one paragraph of your paper already. Where would you like to begin?

Obtestor

typhonblue

Not with that peice.

The whole topic is done and overwith for me.

Obtestor

Typhonblue, I do have one question that has really been bugging me. You know the feeling when you read something and wish that you had access to the writer who wrote it so you could ask them a question about it? Well, since you have made yourself available to this forum, I have a question.

When you explained that a nice guy 'sucked' because when you stuck a boot in his face his response was no different than when he changed the oil in your car, were you basically saying that you expected a certain level of 'boot' action back in your face from him? Since the man didn't put his steel-toe boots down on your neck after you stuck your boot in his face, that made him a 'nice guy'?

Obtestor

Obtestor

The whole topic is done and overwith for me.

Look, I think the piece you made was great. Seriously. It helps the men's rights movement. Thanks for writing it.

Obtestor

Obtestor

Most women don't want to date either "nice guys" or jerks, they want good men.

Women don't know what they want. That is why they fall into the feminism trap.

Obtestor

Hugo Schwyzer

Obstetor, I'm not going to ban you, but I'm going to suggest to you what I suggested to NYMOM -- take a break. When you're commenting seven times an hour, fifteen times a day, it gets to be a bit much. Just a friendly request.

Obtestor

Obstetor, I'm not going to ban you, but I'm going to suggest to you what I suggested to NYMOM -- take a break.

Actually that is rather unfriendly. I am multi-tasking between this forum and some work. But look, no problem Hugo. Let me say this before I go. Not one, not one question I have ever presented was ever answered by any of you honestly and the clear majority of questions I have raised were ignored because of the truths they raised.

You also always intervened to demand unpopular feminist topics important to men not be discussed. This is a forum to talk about the issues, right?

So much for the diversity of ideas and a return to groupthink.

Take Care. I will start a blog of my own and send you the link so you can check it out.

Obtestor

Hugo Schwyzer

I will welcome your periodic comments and news of your blog, Obstetor. May I recommend Typepad rather than Blogger. Actually, I can recommend anything other than Blogger or Livejournal.

emmy

"Actually that is rather unfriendly"

I agree. Sad. I know I posted a lot today too.. but only because someone (who shall remain nameless) kept twisting my words. (And on two different strands no less.)

typhonblue

Obestor says (in quotes):

"When you explained that a nice guy 'sucked' because when you stuck a boot in his face his response was no different than when he changed the oil in your car, were you basically saying that you expected a certain level of 'boot' action back in your face from him? Since the man didn't put his steel-toe boots down on your neck after you stuck your boot in his face, that made him a 'nice guy'?"

It was hyperbole. I never have, nor would I ever, kick someone in the face. The description was black humor, an attempt to illustrate one extreme of a spectrum of behavior.

However, if I were to kick someone in the face, I would expect the same in return. That's why, if I ever *were* to kick someone in the face, I would make damn sure they weren't going to get up and take revenge.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

Regular reads

Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 01/2004