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February 07, 2005

Comments

Hugo

Indeed, sister.

Sheelzebub

Oh, movies about good decisions:

Jane gets a job. Jane works hard. Jane gets a promotion. Jane says no to sex and thus avoids a horrible pregnancy and relationship with a loser, because that's what sex does. Jane shines at work because she works hard and makes lots of money. Jane chooses a good man, and because of her good choice, they get married, have 2.5 children and a dog in a nice suburban home. Jane quits her job and stays home, since her incredible savings earn bucketloads of cash in interest. She and her husband have lots of money and no worries.

Sorry, but Horatio Alger already wrote versions of this ad nauseum.

craichead

"Average age for male winners: 43.1
Average age for female winners: 31.7"

So on average, women acheive stardom and success over twenty years earlier than men.

So is the problem that they don't KEEP outperforming men as they get older?

Sheelzebub

The film never said that he lied to her. It is implied that he simply never told her.

Wrong. He told her that he loved her, and that he wanted to move in with her. You'd know that if you watched the movie, but maybe you forgot in your shock over seeing people potray having sex. Granted, I wasn't a big fan of her choices (and I would have found the guy completely unappealing), but you do seem to give male characters quite the free pass for their bad behavior.

Sheelzebub

And the scene of the husband running out of his house buck naked with his "you know what" flopping around was THE MOST disgusting thing I've ever seen in a film.

I don't know what. Please, please, tell us.


zuzu

Yeah, tell us. What could it be?

djw

That scene was, of course, a master-stroke of comic brilliance because Payne is messing with our expectations. We've been 'trained' to expect to see only the bodies of the beautiful in our filmic expericence, especially with regards to sex, and he uses our expectations against us to great comic effect. He did something similar with Kathy Bates in About Schmidt--our discomfort is Jack Nicholson's discomfort, but it's Kathy Bates (not Jack Nicholson and, well, us) whose actually comfortable with herself, her life, her body.

Hugo Schwyzer

Couldn't agree more, DJW. Well said.

emmy

"Indeed, sister"

Sorry. I aint your sister.

zuzu

That scene was, of course, a master-stroke of comic brilliance because Payne is messing with our expectations. We've been 'trained' to expect to see only the bodies of the beautiful in our filmic expericence, especially with regards to sex, and he uses our expectations against us to great comic effect.

I'm presuming you mean the sex scene, not the beating-with-motorcycle-helmet-scene.

Sheelzebub

I thought it was the running-outside-with-his-you-know-what-hanging-out scene.

I'm still trying to figure out what was hanging out that was so terrible. . . :::eg:::

djw

Yeah, the 'you-know-what' scene.

zuzu

But I still don't know what!

Hugo, re: younger men and Oscars. Someone on another board I frequent mentioned that the roles that win men Oscars often involve mental illness or impairment. Geoffrey Rush seems to have made a specialty of this.

emmy

"Wrong. He told her that he loved her, and that he wanted to move in with her. You'd know that if you watched the movie, but maybe you forgot in your shock over seeing people potray having sex."

Have you seen the movie?

He also told his buddy that he loved her and wanted to move near to her. His buddy's response was that he probably meant it, but was, as you know otherwise engaged to be married. Also, his buddy tried to tell Stephanie's friend that he meant it. Obviously the "jerk" was confused by his emotions.

So, did he LIE to her. NO. He really did have feelings for her. But yes, he was engaged to someone else. Did he tell her that? NO. Did she ask? Probably not.

Sheelzebub

He went from one rationalization--"She knows I'm in town for just a few days, I'm being honest with her" to toying with the idea of what it would be like to live with her, to lying to her about wanting to move in with her and loving her.

The fact that he didn't tell her he was getting married that Saturday because she didn't ask doesn't make him truthful. He's still a liar.

One usually assumes that people aren't that scummy. But perhaps I'll start asking people who've been to my home if they plan on stealing the silver.

zuzu

Hairsplitting and weaseling do not good arguments make.

Hugo Schwyzer

Yes, zuzu, mental illness/impairment does help men win Oscars (Dustin Hoffman, Tom Hanks, Geoffrey Rush) -- and it also helped Angelina Jolie pick one up a few years ago as Best Supporting in that Winona Ryder movie, the title of which escapes me. But Angelina is, surprise surprise, also on the Beautiful People list. Rush and Hoffman aren't.

cmc

I think the Angelina Jolie movie was "Girl Interrupted."

Avi

Emmy: I'm not a woman.

"And the scene of the husband running out of his house buck naked with his 'you know what' flopping around was THE MOST disgusting thing I've ever seen in a film."

No one bothered to point out the misandry of this statement. What, exactly, is so inherantly "disgusting" about male genitals? Or female genitals, for that matter, though they are a little less out there in the kind of buck-naked running scenes we are currently discussing.

I haven't seen the movie we are talking about (not even sure of the title), but I can tell you that the scene that has disgusted me most is the rape scene in Boys Don't Cry. I turned it off and didn't watch the rest of it.

I'm not really sure a comedic glance of the human body compares to some of the horrific acts that have been displayed in film (and all types of art).

emmy

"a comedic glance of the human body"

That's not what we're talking about here. If you haven't seen the movie... then there is really no way to make a judgement call on the scene in question.

Everybody has a different view of what is acceptable to them in a movie anyways. Personally, war violence doesn't bother me a bit... but others I know will not watch a movie such as "Gangs of New York" or "Troy" because people are cut to pieces and blood is everywhere.

Sheelzebub

That scene was, of course, a master-stroke of comic brilliance because Payne is messing with our expectations. We've been 'trained' to expect to see only the bodies of the beautiful in our filmic expericence, especially with regards to sex, and he uses our expectations against us to great comic effect. He did something similar with Kathy Bates in About Schmidt--our discomfort is Jack Nicholson's discomfort, but it's Kathy Bates (not Jack Nicholson and, well, us) whose actually comfortable with herself, her life, her body.

One thing about the sex scene between this guy and his wife that struck me--it make the Thomas Hayden Church charecter look like a total rube. I mean, jeez, he was nothing but foreplay for these two and lost his wallet in the process.

bmmg39

"And the scene of the husband running out of his house buck naked with his 'you know what' flopping around was THE MOST disgusting thing I've ever seen in a film."
-----
"No one bothered to point out the misandry of this statement. What, exactly, is so inherantly "disgusting" about male genitals?"

I haven't seen SIDEWAYS, and probably won't, because of the offensive scene in which a woman bashes a man in the nose with her handbag, but I'd like that question answered, too. Why are people so offended by the sight of the male human body? When will people begin to respect the male body, just as we're told to respect the female body?
I'd like the answer to that question, too

Hugo Schwyzer

Look, I'm a fairly consistent champion of modesty for both sexes in public environments. But like the Apostle Paul, I'm inclined to keep genitalia covered because they are the parts "most deserving of honor" -- not because they are "disgusting." I too find it upsetting to have the penis described as disgusting.

All too often, saying that "penises are ugly" is a convenient way for us to avoid dealing with the reality of the male body. If we never show penises in film (but do show naked women), men don't have to have the same degree of anxiety that women have in comparing their bodies to those on the screen. We've now come to a point in our culture where penises can be played for laughs -- real progress will come when popular movies either show less nudity altogether, or start treating penises as objects of desire rather than ridicule.

Here's where I can stand with the MRAs (and where many feminists stand too) -- in our capitalistic culture, male bodies are increasingly likely to be fetishized. I find that very troubling.

CaptDMO

Older woman actors:
I've never liked Sigourny Weaver in any of the special effect extravaganzas she's done in her youth.
I recently saw "The Guys" again.
An astounding role that calls for great skill In My Humble Opinion. She displayed the craftmanship that no amount of acting school, makeup/costume, hype or trailer can carry.
Physicly she's not a huge T&A persona like much of Hollywood.I can't think of any younger model/actress that could have even come close to meeting the roll-as, they lack the range and exposure to emotions that simple longevity bestow on us all.There was ,of course, the soupcon of acting school poison evident.

I don't think it ever saw mention in any televised awards,I don't know,I don't watch them any more.They suck.

The movie will never pull down the box office that ....say.... Alien did. I secretly like to think she enjoyed the PLUM role in 'The Guys' more than an Oscar.

Now....... shall we discuss 'Calander Girls','Cocoon', or 'Sweet Loraine'? (not Sigourny Weaver movies)

Crys T

"When will people begin to respect the male body, just as we're told to respect the female body?"

Oh please: the entire reason that male nudity isn't as rife in the media as the female sort is down to the attitudes of MEN. It's MEN who can't handle the sight of penises onscreen--I don't know a single women who's worried about it at all.

And the idea that female bodies are somehow in our society treated with more respect than men's is both laughable and disgusting, given the amounts of space given over to objectifying women's bodies as something less than human, and the absolute revulsion given to any female body that isn't model-perfect.

Do you really expect us to accept that vagina-disgust is less widespread in society than penis-disgust? Please.

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