Straight man, gay bar

This is not a particularly profound post.

I've been thinking about dancing and gay bars.  Fear not, gentle readers, my fiancee's trip abroad has not predicated a dramatic announcement about my orientation.  But in the comments below my freaking post, Amy and Zuzu both mentioned a fondness for going to gay clubs.  As Zuzu put it:

I'm fine with freaking with gay men because I know they're not going to be getting ideas about my dancing with them being a permission slip for aggressive sexual behavior. In that context, it's fun.

I don't go out dancing much these days.  (One reason is the distance running: early long runs mean early bedtimes.)  But back in the early to mid-1990s, I did go out almost every weekend.   My friends (of both sexes) and I generally went to gay clubs in West Hollywood.  My female friends liked the clubs for the same reason that Zuzu mentioned; I liked them because I always felt more relaxed.  Dealing with men hitting on me was never a problem -- and from what I could tell, gay men in gay clubs were infinitely less aggressive and rude than straight men in straight clubs.  Or perhaps I just wasn't anyone's type!

Of course, I've spent much of my life around gay men and lesbians.  With the exception of my father and some older cousins, my chief male role models in my adolescence were gay men who worked in the community theatre where I spent every minute of my free time.  These men had loved me and made me feel safe, given me tips on everything from dating to more effectively projecting my voice.  (It goes without saying that none ever treated me with anything other than superb boundaries.)  So when I started going to gay clubs in college, I always felt safe and welcomed, even as a heterosexual man.

But to be entirely honest, what I also enjoyed in these clubs was how free the women I was with clearly felt.  So often, in the predatory enviroment of places frequented by straight men, I could feel my female friends "on their guard" -- and often, I felt myself becoming quite protective.  (This protectiveness was almost always welcomed.)  I didn't have to do that around gay men.  That was quite a relief.

When I tell stories like this, I often get asked "Did you ever wonder, Hugo, about yourself when you were growing up?"  Did you ever think you might be gay?"  In all honesty, absolutely not.  As safe as I felt around gay men and lesbians as a child, a teen, and a young adult, I always somehow knew that on one basic level, I was "different."  My heterosexuality has been clear to me all my life, since I was a small child -- and something so powerful and basic and innate could not, in my experience, be shaped or swayed by any amount of exposure to those whose desires were different. 

Comments

[Amanda]

I'm amused that people think that somehow you'd get gayness off contact with other gay people. Gay people are brought up by straight people but they don't pick up straightness.

Anyway, to stir the shit--doesn't anyone think that's it's just so much abusing of heterosexual privelige to invade gay spaces and use them as relief from hetero bull? Gay clubs are there for gays and lesbians to exist without straight interference, and then straight people march in and treat it like it's an asexual space. It's a way of discounting gay and lesbian sexual experiences by treating them as a respite from the "real" and stressful experiences of straight people.

[Hugo]

Well, I've known plenty of lesbians who felt that way -- but the gay men I know have all welcomed me enthusiastically.

[zuzu]

I got a shout-out!

I've never gone into a gay club without being brought there by a gay man (mixed clubs are different). I wouldn't presume to crash the party if I weren't welcome.

I've also had the experience of going to a dance club in Ann Arbor which was clearly not entirely gay but gay-friendly and being able to figure out very soon that the very hot man who wanted to dirty-dance/freak was just interested in dancing with anyone who wanted to dance like that, and it was mostly women in that setting. For all I know, he felt the same way I do about just getting to dance without expectations.

I do think it's a big deal for straight white men to let go and dance in this society; I've know a couple who do, but mostly if I want to dance, it's Latino or black straight men, my girlfriends, or gay men of all persuasions. My very favorite guy in law school, though, was a Midwestern Viking type who basically heard his own drummer, but dammit, he was gonna dance!

[Amy]

I'm going to de-lurk and comment... I'm a random person who has been reading your blog for a while, Hugo (I forget how I found it - probably linked to from another blog I read?) and stayed because of your routinely thought-provoking entries. I hope that's okay.

Anyway, speaking as a gay woman, back in my clubbing days I would occasionally go to straight clubs (or gay male clubs) for the same reason. I think it's flattering and kind of cute if straight guys hit on me; and because I don't take it seriously, straight clubs are a way of avoiding an over-sexualized atmosphere when all I want to do is dance and hang out with my friends. So I don't really see anything wrong with straight people coming to gay clubs for a similar reason. Anything causing different sorts of people to interact, in my opinion, is probably a good thing.

[zuzu]

Oh, and can I say, that if you want to do real ballroom dances, find a club with old men in it. They know how to lead, even if they don't know the steps, and it makes a big difference.

[Michelle]

Your remark about being protective brought back a memory for me. I was out with a friend at a club and a guy was being aggressive with her. I stepped in and told him to back off. As a female, this was easier for me to do than as a male, as the guy would have looked like a fool fighting a chick in a club.

I've felt pretty comfortable capitalizing on my 6' frame and attitude, so I usually feel pretty "safe" myself. Physical size seems to affect how I am treated as a woman. I'm the friend who walks other, shorter friends to the parking lot...Me, I'll walk alone, and that doesn't bother me. It makes me think of all of the things that men take for granted because of their size, strength, etc. It's difficult to imagine having a smaller stature and having to worry about male aggression in the parking lot, as some women do. I'm sure that my size doesn't necessarily protect me, but I also think it does play a role in me statistically being less likely to be selected for the role of a victim.

For the record, since I have gay friends, I have often been to gay bars. However, sometimes I wanted a little freakin with a straight guy...(blush)For an adult, it's a safe way to release sexual energy without going home with someone.

Another thing, as a woman, going to gay bars has been awkward at times, because when the women ask me to dance, and I do, I feel like a fraud. Lesbians think I'm cute. ;-) People should have some idea of what to expect when they go out to have some fun.

[TA]

For me, gay clubs aren't about not having interference from straight people (I am gay), but they provide a place where I don't have to hide that I am gay. As long as the straight people going there are cool with gay people- the more the merrier!

Hugo- My straight friends agree with your take on the "gay bar experience."

[Ron O]

Back in my clubbing days (pre-freakin, thankfully), I knew which clubs were straight-friendly and which preferred to be exclusively gay, so I don't think I abused it. Since my group of friends was mixed, and the straight people felt more comfortable at a gay bar than vice versa, that's where we typically went.

PS - It's not that I'm a prude about dirty dancing, it just that I'm used to doing it while facing my partner. I find it to be too impersonal otherwise. Of course, that may be just what other want.

[mythago]

Gay clubs are there for gays and lesbians to exist without straight interference

The queer community thanks you for your support, but geez, it's not as though straight people have cooties.

Straight 'inteference' isn't the same as straight presence. The problem with straights in gay clubs is that 99% of them treat it as a combination freak show/demonstration of how daring and hip they are. I don't care if there's a het woman at a dyke bar, but I do care if she brings her boyfriend and ostentatiously hangs on him all night just so nobody, like, gets any ideas.

[Amanda]

By that I mostly meant that in my experience, straight people sometimes can be unwelcoming to gays and lesbians, even in clubs that aren't dance clubs or cruisy or whatever. Like I spend most of my time hanging out at rock shows, where meeting potential dates and hooking up falls way down the list of why people are there, way below seeing the band and hanging out with friends. Ostensibly, your sexuality or marital status isn't even relevant, most of the time. And yet I have seen gays and lesbians get treated as if they don't belong, though thankfully not that often.