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June 13, 2004


Col Steve

I'm glad you at least qualified your words by adding "possible." Let's really examine the two situations for equivalency. And for the record, I thought impeaching Clinton was both a stretch legally and plain stupid politically.

But both women express suspicion about Bush's use of religious themes and say that the president showed moral failings equivalent to Clinton's in the Lewinsky scandal when he led the nation into war on what they now think were false premises.

Clinton had direct knowledge of what took place between Ms. Lewinsky and him. He made a fully informed decision to lie (you can use a kinder verb if you want argue nuances of what "is" means I suppose) and to let others act in good faith on his behalf (and run up large legal bills, etc.) knowing they were doing so based on false information he choose not to correct.

Bush had indirect knowledge provided to him by multiple sources (and remember Tenet was a Clinton appointee) and acted upon that information based on the belief that information was true. He also acted based on upon multiple UN (outside our nation) resolutions that directed compliance by a member nation (bound by the resolutions). He acted with assistance from multiple nations and with the consent of a majority of the members of Congress (from both parties) who also had access to the same information..

To wit,
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of an ilicit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec 5, 2001

If there is proof that Bush had direct evidence that Iraq had no WMD capabilities and still pursued war (and ordered actions be taken to create the evidence to support a war), then I might agree in the moral equivalency (no I would say it would be far worse actually)..Do you know of such proof?

I agree people can debate whether the US and coalition partners had to actually invade Iraq versus giving the UN more time or other policy options. And if you think the war with Iraq was simply over WMD, then you're missing a broader strategic context (which again, people can disagree over)..But for someone who sees a lot of grey in complex situations, I'm a litte surprised you think there is as strong a moral equivalency connection between the two situations as one might infer from your post.

Finally, it is called the "good Book" for a reason..it has eloquence of diction and brilliance of metaphor..many politicians cherry pick quotes because a large majority of people make a connection when a politician starts with "the Bible states.." ..but none of them are running to make the US a theocracy so of course they are going to leave out the part that glorifies God and make the connection to the secular world..What's new about that? If the point is Bush does it more than others, okay..so I assume there is similar outrage for any politician doing the same?

Joy Paul

As a person who didn't vote for Bush in 2000 and won't vote for him this year, but did want him to win in 2000, and will probably be happy if he wins this time, I certainly don't see that he purposely misled the US in going to war with Iraq. I know that is contrary to remarks made by Edward Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi. But I generally disagree with their remarks anyway.

I, too, am bothered by quoting passages and songs out of context, but then I am purist when it comes to separation of church and state. While I think that every Christian (and non-Christian) should be involved in its own goverment's democratic processes, I believe we must be careful not to invoke the name of religion to prove our point.

That does seem to be a very hard plan to follow in practical terms. Some, like the Jehovah's Witnesses opt of goverment altogether. On the other extreme, we have politicians attempting to establish "a city on a hill."

But what I am really thankful for today is that we can have these kind of arguments in our society. I'm glad I don't live under some dictatorship where the person chosen to lead (or rule) is made far away from the ordinary citizen.


I think you're stretching, here, Hugo. It sounds awfully like one of those "Bush lied, kids died" posters which sound good, but have no basis in fact. Bush did what seemed right at the time. For the life of me, I don't think he could have done anything different. By the time there was an "imminent threat", Chicago would have been gone. He acted to remove a danger I applaud him. "We can only do the light as we see the light, and reverently commend our cause to God, confident that with His help and by His grace, we shall prevail". His late Majesty George VI, King-Emperor. Address to the Empire, September 3, 1939.


I don't think there is moral equivalency; I do think that the actions of this administration have called into question the president's credibility. The fact that others are willing to see that equivalency heartens me somewhat, if only for purely partisan reasons.

Ivan Lenin

It seems like ignoring people is your preferred way of being civil and cordial.
You don't love me at all, my Christian friend with a sense of humor, and that just breaks my heart.


I'm about to stage an intervention here.

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