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October 16, 2006

Comments

Angry Harry

Well, you are harldy a 'normal' man, are you Hugo?

You are, how shall I put it, somewhat different to the average male,

But insane, No - misguided!

Paedophile, No

Self-loathing - Yes

Gay - No; but, who cares anyway?

just using a guise of pro-feminism to get laid - Hmmmm.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Maybe.

Angry Harry

Hugo. You are a 'gentle' person. A sensitive soul.

A neurotic.

But your backside and mine are protected by a bunch of macho-men, like soldiers, and police officers, and firemen, and security agents.

And our buildings, our bridges, our dams, our factories, our roads, our canals and railways and, in fact, just about anything that you can think of that involves hard work or nasty, dangerous labour, are nearly all built by men who are not like you.

And I'd hate to get on the wrong side of those guys.

crella

Another potshot at NGs forum,but never,ever a peep while you're over there. They come here and speak their minds, you lurk. You have NEVER posted there, in all the time you've been lurking.

Why dont you ever speak your mind at NGs? To our faces?

The Happy Feminist

Because there is no point in trying to engage with people who are all about baseless ad hominem attack and vicious name-calling.

Antigone

Ick, intelligence required to post.

If soldiers, police officers and fireFIGHTERS and security agents are all macho I weep for society. That's a hazardous mindset according to my human factors and the FAA.

They weren't all built by men either. There are a lot of females who do that now, and a lot of females who did support on those things.

crella

*cough, splutter*

What was that?

I'll be keeping an eye out then, on Pandagon , Feministing and here, and I won't see any ad hominem attacks on MRAs then?

Seriously, that was rich. I should cut and paste every slur I've recieved at Pandgon and Feministing for your perusal.

Angry Harry

Hello Antigone

It is men who have produced the greatest works in all of the arts - literature, poetry, music, paintings, sculptures, films, plays, architecture etc.

It is men who have progressed our understanding in just about all areas to do with science, engineering and medicine - astronomy, chemistry, biochemistry, physics, geology, cosmology, mathematics, economics, geography, climatology, aeronautics, pharmacology, surgery, computer hardware, software etc.

It is men who have built the houses, the bridges, the roads, the railways, the dams, the factories, the ships, the canals, the monuments, the airports, the churches, the offices, the tunnels, the engines, the industrial machinery etc.

It is men mostly who have laboured in the factories, the furnaces, the sewers, the mines etc etc etc.

It is men who have, rightly or wrongly, fought the wars, fought the crimes, fought the elements, fought the odds etc.

Indeed, it is men who have invented, discovered and done nearly everything that has ever been invented, discovered and done.

And there is barely an object or an idea that has been conceived, created, constructed or manufactured by humans that has not been conceived, created, constructed and manufactured by men.

Look around the room that you are in.

There is scarcely an item that has been conceived, created, constructed or manufactured by women.

Not even the bricks.

Putting it bluntly: Just about everything that western women have today, they have thanks to their men.

And they maintain them mostly on the backs of men.

Sociopathic Revelation

"Because there is no point in trying to engage with people who are all about baseless ad hominem attack and vicious name-calling." - Happy Feminist

Then debunk the statement I'm going to posit here: It's my opinion Hugo is self-serving.

Of course, I'm willing to openly admit I'm self-serving as well, and don't mince words about it.

Our political and religious standpoints, more often than not, reflect our self-interest. There's nothing exactly terrible about this truth in itself, but hiding behind a shield or platform of righteousness is what a lot of people do. It's human nature. You figure it out.

djw

I'm afraid none of us misandrist feminist loons are going to be able to debunk a factual statement about your opinion. Verily, this means your opinion is correct.

Why do I get the feeling this thread won't be getting a whole lot of discussion when the history of great political debates of the blogosphere is written?

Angry Harry

According to the History Channel, women liked Hitler too! ...


At least in the early 1930s women were more likely to vote for the Nazis than for the Left, and on the Left the KPD appears to have been much less attractive to women than to men. No doubt the same confessional, class and regional factors motivated women as motivated men, with the additional factor that women were less likely than men to support left-wing parties. In July 1932 a higher proportion of women than men voted Nazi, perhaps because they had fewer existing political allegiances.
Another factor in Nazi support was age. The Nazis projected themselves as a youthful, dynamic party, and Nazi members (averaging 29 years in 1925-32) were younger than those of other parties. Yet the Nazis were also successful in picking up the votes of pensioners and the elderly, especially those whose pensions and savings had been eroded in value. This group, especially elderly women, were a reservoir of previous non-voters to whom the Nazis made a real appeal.

Hugo

And with that final flourish, Angry Harry's career of posting here comes to an end. AH, take it up with me elsewhere, but you're a one-note charlie and I'm not interested in reading more.

Hugo

And if self-serving means trying to get attention for my ideas, you bet I am self-serving. If self-serving means some perverse hidden agenda for sexual gratification, then no, that isn't part of my psychological make-up.

SarahS

I've never heard of this forum, but these men are claiming to be nice?? I guess they don't meet any standard of nice that I've ever seen. Judging from the behavior I've seen so far, they seem creepy and harsh to me. I prefer my men sane thanks.

K

Sarah,

They consider themselves "recovering nice guys." They're trying to assert some control over their lives after years of being, in feminist terms, self-hating and subservient. Just like *some* feminists become "hairy, smelly, man-hating dykes" for a while, these guys seem to be working out what it means to assert themselves, and it erupts in varying degrees of strangeness. Plus there are, as in any psychological self-help movement, some genuine loonies.

Mermade

...and some people wondered why I thought MRAs tend to be trolls. Granted, not all of them are - I enjoy reading Mr. Bad's comments and the like. But since I started reading Hugo's blog, most trolling has been done by folks like Angry Harry.

Hugo, remember Luke 6:22 in times like these.

crella

Mermade, really, I urge you to look up what 'troll' actually means, and what they do and tell me...do people simply posting ideas that do not agree with those posted on Hugo's blog, Pandagon and Feministing really constitute 'trolling'? I mean this as a kindness. Branding healty disagreement as 'trolling' must have our Founding Fathers rolling in their graves.

Here's one--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

The posts here by MRAs do not fit the definition. No one has been lewd, insulting, dragging the thread off-topic...

Simply disagreeing is not trolling.

Mermade

Crella - I am not saying that MRAs are trolls by default, as I enjoy having polite and civil discussion with those who disagree with me (such as you or Mr. Bad). What I am saying is that some of them have posted things that ARE insulting - and most of the trolls on Hugo's page have been MRAs.

As Angry Harry wrote today, "Just about everything that western women have today, they have thanks to their men." How is that not insulting to Hugo's community of readers, many of which are feminist or pro-feminist? To quote Wikipedia, I think his comment was, "designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize [the readers]," specifically Antigone. Oh, Angry Harry's blaming women for the rise of the Nazi party... need I say more? His comment was not constructive, it was offensive, and I think he intended it to be.

Sociopathic Revelation

"And if self-serving means trying to get attention for my ideas, you bet I am self-serving. If self-serving means some perverse hidden agenda for sexual gratification, then no, that isn't part of my psychological make-up." - Hugo

You know I stand by what I said. I don't care if you take this personal or not, but from what I've seen (and not just you, mind that) I've known male feminists that have an individual stake in their camps. Judgment value or not, it's pretty obvious to me. I could care less if you actually were gay, but it appears that you aren't. It is of no consequence to me.

But let's face it; there are men that often rush to women's defense in order to get on their good sides. I've often accused 'Women Firsters' of the same darn thing; that includes men in Promise Keepers and other organizations that are down on saying anything directly critical about what women do, but uphold men to whatever standard they are promulgating at the time.

But Hell. Why be concurrent with a belief system that doesn't benefit you? That's sounds akin to some sort of figurative masochism to me. But like I said, I make no bones about my own self-interest, and getting certain messages across, spreading the word. So with that being said . . .

"I've never heard of this forum, but these men are claiming to be nice?? I guess they don't meet any standard of nice that I've ever seen. Judging from the behavior I've seen so far, they seem creepy and harsh to me. I prefer my men sane thanks." - SarahS

Well, Sarah, I'm Chris, nice to meet you.

I'd love to see what Sarah constitutes as creepy and insane. I wouldn't know. There seems to be wacko women out there as well. As for me, let me sum up it very simply for you---if I find that women are destructive in any capacity in my life, I try to shun them as much as possible. It's part of finding out who is good for you in interactions, and who isn't positive in your life.

For all the 'nice guy' bashing that goes on in (so-called) dating forums, I could care less about the crap that goes back and forth. On an individual basis, I suppose you could lay claim I am not a 'nice' guy; I don't bend over backwards to please all women, I stay away from parasitical relationships, I make alliances with women based more on merit than personnas. If 'nice guy' means praising women no matter what they do, well, you got me: I don't.

As much as you'd be surprised by it, there are women I enjoy hanging out with. The MRA types aren't guys that are hiding in caves during the day time, hunchbacks living their moms' basements, or Giallo-style predators stalking in alleys or anything. Don't know if I'm busting your bubble, but that's not what they are all about. (Oh yeah, I forgot the accusations leveled at MRAs that are personal attacks: they are gay, impotent, socially maladjusted, wimps, too sensitive, losers, angry divorced white men in their fifties, Christian fundamentalists with an attitude, or whatever . . . )

Which brings me to my last point for now. Although I came close to it more than once, I'm not married, I'm much younger than the 50 year old mark, and I'm not a Christian, and I'm not battling over custody rights over children (because I never had them and have no interest in raising kids), so draw your own conclusions from there.


jfpbookworm

What's the purpose of posts like this? It just encourages trolling/flaming without contributing anything substantive.

(I know it's cathartic, and I'm bashing you for not having the patience of a saint, but these blogfeuds never achieve a thing.)

Hugo

No purpose, and we'll be back to less inflammatory blogging soon.

crella

'Just about everything that western women have today, they have thanks to their men'

Not their men....but 'men'. Women have usually not built bridges. Electricity, telephones, trains, cars, air conditioning etc were all invented by males. That some gratitude or respect for their accomplishments might be in order,instead of our manbashing culture, was his point.

crella

BTW that was not meant to be short...I am in a screaming hurry.

Angry Harry


(Yo! Hugo! I'm back!)

Hugo

Not for long. Angry, you can circumvent my blocking but I can delete or alter your comments at will. Heck, I might even turn you into a feminist by rewriting your words.

Fred

Angry Harry: Get a life you ignorant fool.

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