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October 10, 2006

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John

Now, Hugo, brutha, what's with the sudden passion for consistency? :-)

You're coming along, really, you are. You just managed a whole post without looking conflicted.

"The right thing to do! It needs to happen now"

Gosh, Dr. Schwyzer, this is so sudden!

(OK, I'll stop making light of a very serious issue now, you're quite right...)

SamChevre

I think, Hugo, that fairness would include a link to Amp's post.

nobadges

You're being too hard on Amp. He sold the domain, there is no evidence that he knew it would be used for porn.

curiousgyrl

except that he says he negoitated about how closesly linked his blog could be to porn sites in his announcement. So I think thats pretty good evidence.

I was assured by the buyer that he would never host porn sites on “amptoons.com.” And I wrote into the contract that his link on “Alas” could never be a direct link to a porn site

curiousgyrl

here's what he said:
I was assured by the buyer that he would never host porn sites on “amptoons.com.” And I wrote into the contract that his link on “Alas” could never be a direct link to a porn site

nobadges

Amp deserves better than this shark-tank-blood-in-the-water bit that the blogs have going against him. I know that I, for one, would never have read this blog, or Heart's blog, or many other feminist blogs if they hadn't been on Amp's blogroll. I expect this sort of behavior from the men-can't-be-feminists crowd (if you read most of the links that Hugo has above, the people mostly say that they don't read Amp because it is not radical enough), but I was surprised to see it here.

Hugo

Sam, I couldn't find Amp's original post. Thanks for the link.

I'm open to hearing Barry's explanation. But silence is not helping.

curiousgyrl

nobadges-

I agree I read most of his critics because I found them through Amp. But you 'd t hink if he respected some of his feminist critics enough as feminists to make them guest bloggers on his blog, he'd be concerned enough about their opinions to at least respond to the critique.

nobadges

Consider the difference between these two statements:

Amp, we noticed your blog has indirect links to porn. Did you realize this, maybe you should move somewhere else?

and

Amp, you're a sellout. You're the Man. You're the reason men can't be feminists. How could you possibly sell your domain, you should have known it would be used for porn?

Now, of course you didn't say all those things personally Hugo. Just the sellout thing. And a demand for an instant response to your <1 day old post (how horrible that he's been "silent" for less than a day). But all those things appear in the discussions you linked. Pretty distasteful, IMHO.

Daran
I'm open to hearing Barry's explanation.

His original post is an explanation. What don't you understand about it?

The Happy Feminist

Amp has a response up at his place now. (I haven't read it yet. Just thought I'd let you all know.)

aphrael

Also, note: he has reposted his explanation, this time with comments open.

curiousgyrl

It seems to me that the fact that Amp negotiated how his site could be used to promote porn indicates fairly clearly that he knew his site would be used to promote porn.

Lya Kahlo

"I expect this sort of behavior from the men-can't-be-feminists crowd "

It's not that men can't be feminists, it's that boys can't. Boys make excuses, boys pretend it's not that bad, boys belittle the opinions of women and imply the "bitches are crazy" defence. See the difference?

delphyne

Ask him how much money he made from selling out feminists, Hugo.

He seems to respond to your criticisms, whilst conveniently ignoring all the women who are outraged by this and feel betrayed by him.

bmmg39

Lya, are you using the word "boy" in vain?

Even putting aside my own references to myself as a "boy" (denoting a childlike attitude to the world rather than "immaturity"), I'm mostly certain you wouldn't want to see a man refer to grown women as "girls," right?

R. Giskard

Ask him how much money he made from selling out feminists, Hugo.

He seems to respond to your criticisms, whilst conveniently ignoring all the women who are outraged by this and feel betrayed by him.

Maybe if some of those angry women would have helped him support his site (say $1 per complaint) then he wouldn't have had to resort to what was obviously a difficult decision for him. Probably could have afforded that dedicated server....

For someone who's done so much for the Feminist blogosphere, yall are pretty quick to dog him...

Starfoxy

"Maybe if some of those angry women would have helped him support his site (say $1 per complaint) then he wouldn't have had to resort to what was obviously a difficult decision for him. Probably could have afforded that dedicated server..."

When did he tell any of his readers that he was having financial trouble paying for the site and then ask them for help. If he never did that then your entire position falls flat. Or were all of his loyal readers supposed to just know that he needed help and send him money with the (invisible) paypal link at the top of sidebar or should they have used that same fantastic intuition to send a money order to his not-published home address? I'm certain people would have been more than willing to pitch in and help, I've seen it more than once at the very blogs hosted by the 'angry women' you're complaining about.

R. Giskard

How about that big cartoon that says: "Send us money!" A less intuitive person (angry or not) could click on it to go here:
http://zme.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/P2QWYNHDKD6KRP/002-8660908-2775236

I suspect that some of the very people that complained the most about this relatively minor act and how Barry didn't do what they wanted him to do to his blog, were like you, and just glossed over this minor detail...

But perhaps I'm just being judgemental and you gals really didn't realized that a blog costs both money and a tremendous amount of personal effort and time to keep up, esp. a blog with as much traffic and quality articles as Alas... (well, quality when Barry is writing the articles that is).

jo22

Isn't opening a comment thread for this going to boost the links ratings?
I am suspicious.

delphyne

"Maybe if some of those angry women would have helped him support his site (say $1 per complaint) then he wouldn't have had to resort to what was obviously a difficult decision for him. Probably could have afforded that dedicated server...."

If it hadn't been for all those women posting at his site and working (that's *working*) as guest bloggers for him he wouldn't have had much of value to sell in the first place. And you know, maybe some people would have supported him financially if he'd asked - I'm sure all his anti-feminist trolls could have put their hands in their pockets IF HE'D ASKED, but he didn't, he decided to do a deal with a sexist racist pornographer instead.

"For someone who's done so much for the Feminist blogosphere, yall are pretty quick to dog him..."

He's done a lot more for himself. Out of all the people who started blogs and forums off the back of the Ms Boards, which is where this all started out, Ampersand is the only one as far as I know who has made any money from it. A man exploiting women - how novel.

Starfoxy

1. I don't regularly read his blog- so don't be universalizing my inattention to detail onto everyone else here.
2. There is very little indication that the cartoon & link you mention is a serious request for money based on a real need rather than a just playful attempt to get a few bucks. Also, it's about halfway down the page, who reguluarly scrolls down that far?
3. I read the post Hugo linked to where he described his actions- the phrasing in the post indicated to me that this was the first time he decided to let on that his budget was tight enough to need help paying for the blog.
4. See here for more than one example of where readers have stepped up to donate money.

R. Giskard

If it hadn't been for all those women posting at his site and working (that's *working*) as guest bloggers for him he wouldn't have had much of value to sell in the first place.

The biggest complaint I heard from most of his “guest bloggers” was that they couldn’t get any exposure on their own sites. Many were so excessively pedantic or worse, ridiculously hostile, that most readers simply ignored their sites. Their posts hardly added “value” to Amp’s site, in fact, quite the opposite. Amp did them a favor letting them post on a respected site that had much more readership than their own. Yet you turn it around and argue that they were doing Amp the favor? How novel.

And you know, maybe some people would have supported him financially if he'd asked - I'm sure all his anti-feminist trolls could have put their hands in their pockets IF HE'D ASKED, but he didn't, he decided to do a deal with a sexist racist pornographer instead.

He did ask.. See my previous post in this thread. Follow the link. That cartoon and link has been there for literally years. What did you want him to do? Grovel a little more perhaps? And “anti-feminists” had nothing to gain from Amps’s site. After many petty complaints from the Feminist contingent, they were more or less excluded from commenting. The Feminists however, did benefit more than a little from what Amp created. They could have stepped up, but simply didn't care enough to do so. But of course, no good deed goes unpunished if you are a male pro-feminist.

And now they are “racist” pornographers? What? Not enough naked PsOC? Too many naked pictures of David Duke? Funny, I haven’t found any links to any porn sites on Alas.. racist or otherwise. Maybe you could provide a link since you have obviously seen this site yourself..

He's done a lot more for himself. Out of all the people who started blogs and forums off the back of the Ms Boards, which is where this all started out, Ampersand is the only one as far as I know who has made any money from it. A man exploiting women - how novel.

Yeah he’s just a selfish man who’s never done a damn thing for Feminism. It’s all about bad old Amp. Right. All those people that enjoyed what he wrote and the dialog that his blog facilitated were all being taken advantage of. I’m sure you all suffered greatly..


delphyne

Yeah, Ampersand establishes himself on the back of a movement created by women for women, and once the attention is on him he can graciously "allow" guest bloggers (workers) to keep the traffic up at his site. What a prince. He didn't have to grovel for money, he could have just asked his readership - many bloggers have done that. Something that has been there for a long time becomes part of the wallpaper, people forget to look at it.

Racism in pornography is sexual fetishisation of a someone's race. It's really common, but I guess you just aren't going to see it, the way most people also refuse to see the sexism in porn. Just because you dismiss it loftily doesn't mean it's not there. You can't sneer things out of existence.

As for anti-feminist trolls and sexists not being allowed to post at Alas, those are pretty much the only people left there. Most feminists decamped ages ago because Ampersand was never going to do anything about them.

Charles S

[this may be a double post, I can't figure out if I posted but it is in moderation, or if I just never got around to posting. If it is a double post, my apologies]

R. Giskard,

"Some kind of help is the kind of help
That helping's all about
And some kind of help is the kind of help
We all can do without"

Not that I expect you particularly care, but please don't imagine you are doing Amp any favors by what you are writing here. The support of anti-feminist trolls who can't recognize racist porn is no support at all.

delphyne,

Alas has about 4 resident sexists and anti-feminist trolls that I can think of: Robert, Brandon Berg, RonF, Toumas (who is more a racist troll than an anti-feminist). Care to list any others? I think it has a few more commenters than 4, so it should be easy for you to list another dozen anti-feminists. While it gets drive-by trolls just like everywhere else (and you have no idea how many it gets that never make it through moderation), I think it is pretty ridiculous to claim that its residents are pretty much all anti-feminist trolls. Not that it isn't a common claim.

Certainly, plenty of feminists have abandoned Alas because Amp tolerates a limited set of relatively well behaved anti-feminist trolls (something many other feminist blogs, like pandagon, feministe, or this one here do as well) and plenty have abandoned it because it intermittently gets over run with lots more anti-feminists. Certainly, it is entirely understandable why lots of people don't feel like dealing with the trolls. But there are still plenty of feminists on Alas, and to claim otherwise is pretty insulting (to the feminist commenters, not to Amp) and a bit ridiculous.

How many more feminists will leave over this new issue? Probably lots, but that isn't what you said just now. How many feminists will stay? Probably more than a few. And they are there now, to leave or stay as they choose.

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