"Ranking the girls": a note on teaching and an ugly side of homosociality

Not a lot of time for posting today, I am busy grading and resting.

Yesterday on campus, I ran into a colleague I hadn't seen in several years.  "Max" and I were hired around the same time as adjuncts in the early 1990s; I eventually was lucky enough to get a full-time job.  Max (who taught sociology and psychology) was not.  He taught at PCC for a number of  years, and then gave up his dreams of teaching and went into the business world.  He told me yesterday, as we greeted each other, that he's back to "adjuncting" again -- his business success has allowed him to return to his original passion of college teaching, even if only part-time. He's maybe a decade and a half older than I am, somewhere (I think) in his mid-fifties.

I never saw Max teach.  But I vividly remember a discussion we had close to ten years ago ('late '96 or early '97), not long before he left the college.   He was in the faculty lounge one morning, going over his class roster.  He stood up excitedly when I walked in: "Hey Hugo, look at what I'm doing!"  I came over, and saw that he had placed numbers next to the names of many of his students.  My heart sank; I thought Max was going to share with me some new and complex grading theory that would be very tedious to have to listen to. 

But it wasn't about grading: "Hugo, I've ranked all the girls in all my classes!"

I was stunned, staring at the sheet.  He'd ranked them two ways.  One, "ordinally", from 1 (the "hottest" in his estimation) up to about #20 (there were that many women in the class).  Then, he'd put a second number (in a different color pen) next to the first number.  This reflected, he explained, where the girls stood on the classic 1-10 "objective" scale.  His #1 in the class, therefore, ranked as an 8.75. 

I was so bewildered, all I could think to ask was "Max, how long did this take you?" 

Max told me he did this with every class each semester.  It took him a few weeks to make decisions, he explained.  "I can't make a final decision on where they rank until I see them in different outfits; it's usually not until the midterm week that I am sure of what numbers they deserve. But hey, Hugo, you should try it -- it's objective and subjective grading at the same time!"  And with that, I got a slap on the back and off he went.

I really agonized for a while about confronting Max about this.  The temptation to "let it go" was overwhelming.  I was 29, still untenured (though already full-time).  I was certainly still quite tentative in my commitment to challenging older men.  But after running Max's story by a friend of mine who was an active feminist (and not on campus), I summoned up the courage to confront him.  Of course, it didn't go well.

I invited Max into my office, and I told him how uncomfortable I was with what he had showed me.  I used words like "sexist" and "unprofessional".  Max became very indignant.  "This is bullshit, Hugo.  I'm only doing on paper what every man does in his head.  I'm honest about it -- but you, you're a fucking self-righteous fraud!"  And he stomped off.  Later, he came up and apologized for his language , but not for his "ranking system."  And having said my peace, I let it drop.  When I saw Max yesterday, I instantly flashed back to our fight over his "rankings".  Honestly, I'm surprised I hadn't remembered it earlier to blog about it before.

This story ties in nicely with the theme of yesterday's post about feminist men and assertiveness.  It also dovetails with the vital issue of accountability in fantasy as well as in action.  (I wrote a long post about sexual fantasy and integrity in March.)  And in that context, I remember that Max had been right about one thing: many men do in their minds what he was doing on paper -- "ranking" their students, colleagues, and acquaintances on their sexual desirability.  He may have been more brazen than many, but he was hardly unique.

As a teenager, I learned that "ranking" girls was one of the chief pastimes of my peers when we were in a single-sex group.  And I'll be the first to admit that in those years, I happily participated.  We had long debates about whether "Cindy" or "Lisa" was the hottest girl in Mr. Fletcher's biology class.  And of course, even at that age, I figured out the desperately obvious: the real pleasure in sharing these rankings lay in the fact that they acted like glue to cement male friendships.  I was shy and insecure and eager to make friends with guys, and at that age, more than willing to use sexual objectification as a tool to bring me closer to them. Homosociality in action indeed!

It was telling to me that Max was so eager to share his ranking system. It wasn't enough for him to establish "control and power" over the women in his classes by secretly evaluating them on their looks without their knowledge.  Whatever pleasure that brought him was insufficient -- he needed to share his efforts with another man.  I suspect that he hoped I would react with pleasure.  He knew that he and I shared some of the same female students, and that perhaps we could spend a few happy minutes together discussing and rating their physical attributes.  And to be candid, for a split second, the idea did seem appealing to me.  I'm grateful indeed that for me, the charm of his "system" vanished so fast!

Obviously, I don't rank my students this way, even in my mind.  It's unethical, it's anti-feminist, it's immoral, you-name-it.  As a married Christian feminist twice the age of my students, to do so would be antithetical to everything I profess.  But I still run into men (including some of my current colleagues) who from time to time are eager to "bond" over a shared discussion of the relative and objective attractiveness of their students, co-workers, or simply women passing by.  Sometimes, the temptation to "get along and go along" still kicks in for me, though I resist it.  The lure is not in the power over women, or the excitement of evaluating women who would no doubt not give the likes of us a second glance.  The lure -- the terrible, destructive lure -- is that in sharing fantasies and "rankings" men can become closer, recreating as adults the "boys only" clubs of their childhoods.

Max is back on campus. (And his real name, obviously, ain't "Max.")  And I'm wondering whether to bring up the ranking system again, or leave it be.  He's not violating an official college ordinance, after all.  Maybe what he's doing is harmless.  But from the perspective of his students, the idea of him continuing on with his "system" bothers me still.  I'm not yet sure what, if anything, I'm going to do.

Comments

[evil_fizz]

Maybe what he's doing is harmless.

That's a pretty big maybe in my mind. I can understand looking at women (even your students) and thinking that they're attractive and comparing them in terms of looks. What I cannot wrap my head around is the idea that a professor is waiting to *see what outfits* his female students are wearing so that he can further assess their hotness. Somehow, I find it very hard to believe that his ranking them doesn't somehow effect how he ultimately grades their work and treats them in class.

I think I need a shower.

[Bette]

Just to think that a professor would do such a thing is just unbelievable. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't believe men would stoop that low. He deserves to lose his job. This is extremely unprofessional behavior. Actually I'm sure this is the reason he wasn't given a full time position.

[jfpbookworm]

I'm only doing on paper what every man does in his head.

This is, however, a non-trivial distinction.

[Hugo]

Bette, I can assure you that this had nothing to do with his not getting a full-time job. Now, if I were ever on a hiring committee for which he was an applicant, it's the sort of thing that might affect my decision.

[Mr. Bad]

Hugo wrote: "It wasn't enough for him to establish "control and power" over the women in his classes by secretly evaluating them on their looks without their knowledge."

That's ridiculous Hugo. How the hell does one establish "power and control" over another person by secretly ranking their 'hotness?' If those women didn't know he did this, just how would they be "controlled" or influenced in any way whatsoever by it?

It's ideas like that which make resonable people think feminists are complete loons and thus cause them not to identify as feminist.

You continue: "Whatever pleasure that brought him was insufficient -- he needed to share his efforts with another man."

Well one thing's for sure: He certainly wins the clueless prize thinking that you would respond favorably to his 'scorecard.'

I agree with you and others that "Max" seems to have some issues, but jeez Louise, making a big deal out of this seems to me over the top. People (yes, men and women) rank each other all the time; I'm sure that even some feminist WS profs rank their students on various attributes (maybe even using a "hotness" scale), even if they don't share their 'scorecards' with you. But hey, if getting in the face of a guy like Max makes you feel like you're doing your part as a male auxilliary of The Feminist Movement (TM) then by all means, knock yourself out. Just be sure to pick your battles carefully, lest someone else knock you out themselves. ;)

My advice (not that you probably give a rip): Chalk Max up as a clueless loser and let it go. You probably have more important battles to concentrate on.

[Ed]

"Max" is clearly not an Arjuna. Just leave it at that - "karmapala" (that is the complete term) will take care of the rest, I always say.

[Random Lurker]

Geez.

Ok.. granted- person A thinking about the relative attractiveness of persons B, C and D is not an objectively evil thing.

However, this gets creepy when person A is in a position of power over B,C and D. It gets *ultra*-creepy when B, C and D are young people and A is meant to be acting in a guiding or helpful way towards them. That is *not* the same as when A, B, C and D are all peers- to my mind.

I would also argue that male 'ranking' of female attractiveness has never really been a benign or harmless thing. In my experience, it has *always* had overtones of hostility and hatred. Always. It's never about appreciating the beauty of the women's individual humanity. It's about reducing them to cuts of beef and feeling superior about it.

[Radi]

Longtime Hugo reader here (I usually just lurk).

Ed (@ 8/3/2006 2:22pm): I believe the word is "karma-phala" (literally, the fruit of one's actions). The "ph" in the word sounds something like if you tried to pronounce "pf". Or if you cough slightly while saying "pa".

Random Lurker (@ 8/3/2006 3:21pm): Right on. You took the words right out my mouth.

[NancyP]

Do you think he might have grown up?

[Ed]

Radi:

Yes, you're correct. In Balinese, though, there are no aspirated stops, so most people end up saying (and writing) "karmapala". Oh well, vive la difference. But I don't want to drift from the thread too much...

[Hugo]

Grown up since 1997, Nancy? Perhaps. Of course, he's in his fifties now, and was at least forty back then.

[tsm]

Just to clarify, he didn't specifically weight these, uh, "rankings" into the grades he gave, did he? Now THAT would be very unethical, of course.

As a grad student I've been a TA in many classes, and I must admit that I have, in fact, talked and joked a little bit, outside of the work environment, with other TAs/grad students about students who I thought were attractive. If this was a transgression, I feel it was a minor one. I can't agree with Random Lurker that this is about reducing them to "cuts of beef"; it's just that ... well, I'm a heterosexual male, and we notice attractive women.

But actually letting this affect your work would strike me as extremely unprofessional. I would make a concerted effort to put these sort of things aside in discussion and grading, and treat them like any other student. (I was concerned enough about showing favoritism of any sort that, for example, when grading electronically submitted homework I would run it through a little "anonymizing" program I wrote that stripped each submission of identifying information.) And I would never do something like what "Max" did. I mean, doesn't the guy take any pride in his position and his work? Geez.

[kate.d.]

this gets creepy when person A is in a position of power over B,C and D. It gets *ultra*-creepy when B, C and D are young people and A is meant to be acting in a guiding or helpful way towards them.

right, exactly. and it doesn't matter if the girls in max's class are aware of this or not. there's no way that this kind of meticulous attention to the appearance of the women in his classes *doesn't* affect how he ultimately grades them. he might not be cognizant of it, but really - how can you be objective about a woman's intellectual capability if you revel in your inobjectivity about her appearance?

and really, beyond that, women *do* know that men think about them and rate them like this: friends, strangers, teachers, etc. and what max is doing is emblamatic of a bigger societal impulse, which is to convey to women that there is always a chance they're being looked at, viewed, judged. and when that's a woman's mindset, she's automatically at a disadvantage, because it takes up that little (or big) bit of her consciousness that could otherwise be reserved for, oh i don't know, learning.

[Starfoxy]

I would be very interested to raid his files and run an analysis comparing the grades he gave with the ratings he gave. If there is any sort of correlation, (and I think there would be) then there would be at the very least, grounds to suggest that rating his students hinders his ability to grade them subjectively.
I would hope he wouldn't be foolish enough to keep his ratings scorecard from previous years, but given the amount of attention he gave it, it certainly seems he would keep it. I'm sure Hugo wouldn't be up for 'borrowing' his files, but that would certainly be fascinating data.

[tekanji]

If I was a student of his and found out about his "ranking system" I would take it up with the university as sexual harassment. It's completely unprofessional and when a teacher believes that there's nothing wrong with objectifying his students, and contributing to a sexually hostile environment (especially since he shows other teachers), then I don't think there's any question that he's abusing his authority.

[N2]

yes it's karma phala. phala means 'fruit' so karma phala is the fruits of one's actions

[rejiquar]

I have fond memories of my college years, and would've horrified to discover my profs ``ranking'' me on my appearance---I ranked them on their teaching skills, passion for the subject, and of course knowledge of the same; and expected them to rank me on the student's understanding of same.

Ugh. I realize people can't help making observations about physical attributes (though I always felt it was one of my duties as a student to do this as little as possible towards my teachers) but as another poster said, this is creepy; it's not harmless.

I'd like to think finding out about something like this wouldn't've soured me on college, but I surely would've dropped the prof's class, pronto. (Feminism has made some strides, I guess: bringing suit strikes me as a much better approach.)

Though I have to admit, this guy's hardly the only one. I had a prof punningly call me by the name of a venereal disease, once. Why I didn't have the sense to complain to the administration back then...as I said, really bad to subject young women to this sort of crap.

rejiquar

[mythago]

Someday there will be a sexual harassment lawsuit against your college, Hugo, and someday Max and his little notes will be center stage in a deposition.

Beyond that, Max sounds a little, oh, immature? It's one thing to notice attractive students. It's a step beyond that to make the mental effort to "rank" them. But sitting down and making a list over time, with different-colored ink yet?

[Vacula]

Like kate d. said, it's really unlikely that the girls in the class hadn't picked up on this at all. Anyone who spends this much time evaluating people based on their appearances is unlikely to maintain an unbiased manner in the class, and students are usually very aware of who gets the best reactions from the teacher. Add that to what Hugo's described about sexual competetiveness among women in the school, and you get an extremely degrading situation, especially for the girls that aren't likely to rate a 1 on his scale. It's even worse that he's teaching psychology and sociology, disciplines that focus on human interactions and relationships and power, and he doesn't see how damaging this could be.

I went to Wheaton College. As a smallish private Christian school, it holds the teachers to very high standards in their relationships with students, in much the same spirit that Hugo describes his teaching philosophy. I was fortunate to have excellent teachers that demonstrated a great deal of interest in mentoring and encouraging their students, as well as pushing and evaluating them. It's a competetive school with very bright, self-confident students, but even in that situation there were students who were extremely sensitive to their teacher's analysis of them. Positive and negative feedback from teachers had a lot of influence on the way those students saw themselves, whether it was a grade on a test or a response to their contributions in classroom discussion.

In a school where there is a wider power gap between the teachers and students, having a teacher feel the right to judge a student on something so clearly unrelated to their studies is frightening. I'm actually surprised that Mr. Bad thinks this is no big deal, though I suppose I shouldn't be.

[Hugo]

Just to clarify something -- most of us at PCC have double sets of rosters; one that gets turned into the college at the end of the term with official grades on it; the other a xerox of that roster on which we can "back-up" our grades. Max's rankings were on his private back-up roster.

[jeffliveshere]

I'm only doing on paper what every man does in his head.

Wow. Really? That hetero-ish men notice various women are attractive to them (something which is undoubtedly ubiquitous) does not translate into 'ranking' women from various spheres (in this case, each class). That's beyond creepy, and his supposition that sharing this practice with somebody--especially you, Hugo!--would be ok sort of shows just how out of touch with social reality this guy is; combine this with a view that all men are doing exactly what he's doing but in their heads is a bit pathological, in my opinion.

You are faced with a tough choice, I think, regarding talking with him. On one hand, ought he be able to get away with doing this stuff (if he still is)? On the other hand, is there a way to do it that isn't just one man coming down on another? How important is the latter factor when something is this creepy? No easy answers, here, I think.

By the way, I think it's commendable that you talk at all about attractions between teachers and students. I think it is one of those elephants in the room oftentimes, and talking about it out in the open is one good way of ditching some of the ugly side of homosociality, among other things.

[jeffliveshere]

"How the hell does one establish "power and control" over another person by secretly ranking their 'hotness?'"
...said the creepy man sitting in the corner checking out women, thinking they don't notice him.

[tsm]

In a school where there is a wider power gap between the teachers and students, having a teacher feel the right to judge a student on something so clearly unrelated to their studies is frightening. I'm actually surprised that Mr. Bad thinks this is no big deal, though I suppose I shouldn't be.

Well, people do judge each other on matters of attractiveness all the time in their head, don't they? What made Max's actions questionable to me is how he did not hesitate to dwell on it and be quite explicit about it. Not to mention that his "rankings" were likely reflected to some degree in his grades; I suspect the kind of guy who cheerfully chats with a colleague about this isn't the sort to be too exacting about impartiality in his evaluation, either.

[jfpbookworm]

On a slightly different note, the "ranking" of who's attractive never served to "cement male friendships" for me, because I was too afraid of being ridiculed for not liking the "right" people.

Is it another introvert/extrovert thing?

[Hugo]

Jeff, I've resolved to see if I can't find a way of finding out if he's still "at it", as it were.  I only saw him for a moment on Wednesday and learned he would be picking up a few classes here (and at other local JCs).  I certainly don't want a repeat of the angry exchange we had many years ago -- but at the same time, I'm not sure whether it's okay to let it go.

Yes, mutual attraction will happen in the classroom from time to time.  I don't want to deny that fact.  I've talked about it from the student end here and from the teacher end here.  But acknowledging that eros often shows up in Clio's domain is one thing,what Max was (is?) doing is another!

As for the problem with "secretly ranking" someone else's hotness, that's a good subject for a future post.