Follow up on sex ed

I was gratified that we had so many kids show up last night for the first of four consecutive Wednesdays devoted to a discussion of sex, faith, and ethics.  A normal turnout is about 15-20 these days; last night, we had almost 30 teens.

Since confidentiality is always vital in youth work, I won't blog about anything that any of the kids said last night.  But I will share one activity that we've used successfully for years.  We let the teens write questions, anonymously, on small slips of paper, and we put them in a box. (Last night, actually, it was a large plastic tub that until recently had contained Red Vines.)  The adults then pick questions out at random, and we do our best to answer them.   

Last night, one question appeared that I feel comfortable blogging about.  It read: "What do you really think about us having sex at our age?" 

Yikes.  Great question.  I read it out loud, and immediately looked at my other youth group leaders, hoping that one  of them would be struck by inspiration.  They just smiled back at me, with a look that said "Better you than us, Hugo!"  I gulped and took a stab at an answer, having first uttered a rapid and almost silent prayer.  When I was much younger, I would have told them "I want you to do whatever makes you happy, as long as you aren't hurting yourself or someone else."  That's the simple, rather mindlessly liberal answer.   Three years ago, I might have said "In my heart of hearts, I wish you would all wait until you were much older.  Frankly, I wish you'd wait until marriage."  I believed that with a passion, once.  For any number of reasons, those words ring hollow to me now.  I couldn't say that with sincerity because I no longer believe it.

So here's (more or less) what I said:

"You guys, when I look at you, it isn't possible for me to see you as a group of generic teenagers.   When I look at this room, I don't just see fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen year-olds.  I see people whose individual stories I know.  Some of you I've known just a little while.  Some of you I've known since you were bratty little sixth-graders five or six years ago.  When I look at you (pointing around the room), I see (names changed) Michael, not a sophomore boy.  I see Marie, not a senior girl; I see Janae and Brent and Alexa and Rick, not just four random kids sitting on a couch.  And though you are all alike in so many countless ways, you're also fundamentally different people with different needs and different histories.  Honestly, the more I work with you, the less I feel comfortable handing out a one-size-fits-all moral agenda with any confidence.  In truth, while I think in general it is better to wait before taking on the enormous responsibilities and consequences of sex, I know full well that some of you are simply "readier" than others.  I'm not going to name names, of course!  But I can't help but see you as individuals with different desires and different levels of maturity, faith, and emotional preparedness."

So help me, those are (more or less) the words that came to me.  I've been reflecting on them this morning.   I'm not sure if those were the right words in answer to a very serious question.  Yes, they came from my heart.  But I know enough to know that as a thirty-seven year-old youth worker, I have to answer the sensitive questions of kids less than half my age from my head as well as from my heart!  Was that just unthinking progressive pablum?  Am I sometimes so damned open-minded that the wind blows through?  Or was that really the right thing, the inspired thing, to say? 

Above all, I wonder this: before I said those words, I asked Christ for help.  Was He anywhere in my answer?

I'm wrestling with that this rainy Pasadena morning.

Comments

[Snowe]

marital...geez, I'm an idiot today.

[Hugo]

Well, Snowe, I don't think sex should ever be without merit! ;-) Seriously, where in the New Testament is it unambiguously clear about pre-marital sex? There's talk about sexual immorality, yes. But are we absolutely certain that refers to intercourse? There's talk of adultery too, but I have no problem judging extra-marital relations as inherently problematic, as they fail the "Regas test" I wrote about in my other post.

Look, I think most kids are better off waiting to have intercourse. No question. But "most kids" is not "all kids". And I continue to believe that sexual decision-making has to be made in the context of one's own unique cocktail of experience, desire, emotional maturity and spiritual conviction.

[Hugo]

Oh, and Thunder, I read the beliefnet interview and I've ordered the Winner book. I'll respond to what I read when it comes...

[redeemed]

Hugo, I'm with Stephen here. You had an opportunity to share God's Best with these kids and you missed it. They looked to you for guidance and you basically said, "do what you think is best for you". The negative, long term consequences to pre-marital sex, physical, emotional, and spiritual, is an epidemic for young people in our society. I counsel people in troubled marriages and many wounds and guilts, for both the men and the women, are from the choices they made to have sex with multiple partners before their marriage relationship, Becoming "one flesh" with your marriage partner is really hard when you're already "one flesh" with many other people. I know from reading this blog often that you are a thoughtful, compassionate person. If you have a chance I would encourage you to pray through your response and ammend it with the kids the next time you meet with them.

[Hugo]

Thank you, redeemed. Please know that I've been praying about this for years and years. I wish that I had the luxury of the certainty that you have.

[mythago]

Becoming "one flesh" with your marriage partner is really hard when you're already "one flesh" with many other people.

Speak for yourself. It's a lot easier to be "one flesh," in my experience, when you have no doubts at all about the other "flesh" that's out there.

The New Testament is unambiguously clear that chastity is preferable to marriage, but I doubt anyone will be scolding Hugo for telling teens to get married.

[Ab_Normal]

Normal, thanks, I was in a hurry and I don't think I said what I want to say.

redeemer, I said something about this on the previous thread, but here it is again: I went to a Roman Catholic school and was strongly taught that sex should be reserved for the sacrament of marriage. Unfortunately, this was taught in such as way that made sex seem dirty and wrong. I was a virgin until marriage, just like they wanted... and I have, in 18 years of marriage, been sorely tested to overcome those deep-seated teachings of "Sex BAD!". (It has caused strain in my marriage.) From my personal perspective, I advise being very careful if you want to teach that sex should be solely reserved for marriage.

[Ab_Normal]

redeemed, please accept my apologies for mis-typing your handle. Perhaps it was a Freudian typo...

[redeemed]

Ab_Normal, I completely agree. When we speak to kids aboput sex, my wife and I both tell them that sex in marriage is great and lots of fun, and worth the wait. But we also say that we both wished that we had waited because the struggles that we had were there because we brought those other relationships into our marriage bed.

[redeemed]

Ab_Normal, I'm glad I'm just redeemed and not the Redeemer! Way too much responsibility:)

[Stephen]

Amanda: you transliterated with a healthy dose of your own bigotry thrown in.

Hugo: "I wish that I had the luxury of the certainty that you have."

Don't go there -- the martyr for ambiguity. It's really rather beneath you. Who said conviction or belief was equal to certainty and why would this be a luxury.

Stephen

[Hugo]

Fine, Stephen, I'll rephrase:

I wish I had the gift of certainty.

[Stephen]

Sorry Hugo -- that was a bit snide on my part. I'll try to temper my responses.

Stephen

[Chip]

"Honestly, the more I work with you, the less I feel comfortable handing out a one-size-fits-all moral agenda with any confidence. In truth, while I think in general it is better to wait before taking on the enormous responsibilities and consequences of sex, I know full well that some of you are simply 'readier' than others. I'm not going to name names, of course! But I can't help but see you as individuals with different desires and different levels of maturity, faith, and emotional preparedness."

Hugo,

I'll strongly disagree with what you told the kids, and that's no surprise to you. But beyond that point, it seems to me that this statement could be (mis-, I assume)interpreted by kids to mean that abstaining from sexual activity shows a lower level of "maturity, faith, and emotional preparedness."

Also, just out of curiosity (no attack intended), would you be comfortable with "handing out a one-size-fits-all moral agenda" concerning adultery?

Peace of Christ,
Chip

[Thunder Jones]

Glad I could drop a book rec. She spoke to a group at a church I attended and she was really articulate and informed. Enjoy.

[Hugo]

Chip, I am glad you pointed out that bit about readiness. Fortunately, in another context that evening, I made it very clear that not being ready for sex was not in any way a sign of immaturity. Indeed, acknowledging one's "unreadiness" could, I suggested, be seen as a sign of maturity itself.

Adultery, Chip, is betrayal of a contract. It turns the adulterer into a liar -- that can't lead to happiness. That's different from pre-marital sex by a long shot.

[Monk-in-Training]

Hugo,
Anytime you get the issues of sex and teenagers you will have people throwing both sides of the debate at you. I think the key to your discussion was that you know these kids. That means they are in Church, struggling with their lives and attempting to walk the journey of Faith. You one statement isn't the be-all of what they will hear about sex. Hopefully their parents are talking to them about it, hopefully they are looking to the Scriptures about it also. The one thing I will say is this, if you had given them a canned, one-size-fits-all answer, you would probably have lost a bit of respect in their eyes.

One other thing no one seems to have picked up on, is that your Church is attempting to teach kids about sex at all! Most Churches around here just condemn the whole thing and won't talk about it. Our Parish did a program that was 10 weeks long for high school, and 4 weeks for middle school. It is out of Texas, called "Just say Know". Very informative.

[Michael]

Kindof an interesting side reading concerning this topic.

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/fornication

This makes me feel better. Now I'll have considerably less 'sin' points against me when I stand before God to be judged. Now if I can think of a way to justify some of the other sins I've committed....

Hmm.. St Michael.. no wait.. we have one of those already...

[Mercy]

Sounds to me like after much debate we all have different opinions on this issue.__The bottom line is that they, (meaning the teenagers)are going to do it anyway.__ They just go over to planned parenthood and get birth control pills.__ If these were my kids, I would appreciate the guidance of an informed, understanding, realistic adult youth counselor rather than nothing at all.__Let's face it, sex is problematic no matter what, but we also have to face up to the fact that we can't deny that sexuality is a part of life. __I applaud Hugo for his honesty, and I pray for his guidance on this very important and controvercial issue.

[K]

Hugo,

I appreciate all your honesty in this matter. Many Christians would just leave it be and hide theri struggles on this issue. It does prove to everyone reading that YOU WANT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. I must say though that I disagree with you. I work with teenagers from our youth group. I KNOW them and they have shared deep things that only I know. The issue of wether it's ok to have sex as a teenager is always upon our youth. I always find it esier to explain to them by asking several questions.What benefit would you receive in having sex at this age? Etc. We as youth workers have a rsponsibilty as servants of God to these young people to help them in their overall life anf relationship with God. I agree with the other writer talking about the "one flesh." That is the answer to sexual immorality.

I can tell by the way you talk abouth these young that you really truly love and care for them. I dont think that your doubt is anything to do with intellect. it could be the HOLY SPIRIT speaking into your conscience(I hope this does not sound condemning). Many times I find that when I struggle like this I am making decisions with My Self, not God.

[Caitriona]

Hi, Hugo. I'm back after 8 days no ISP connection. Folks at the ISP don't know Linux, so they didn't know they needed to tell us they'd changed the DNS. Ah, well. Now to your question.

I can understand your difficulty. When these sorts of questions come up with our teens (not often, but more often than in many other families we know), it's a struggle to come up with just the right words. I usually follow my own mother's line of discussion. I guess you've figured out by now that my family is all about responsibility and informed decision-making.

"It would be my wish that you wait until you're married, but I'm not naive enough to think that you'll wait just because I want you to or because I tell you that's what's right. You're teenagers, and hormones are flying. So let's talk responsibility. You're the one who has to take on the responsibility for each decision you make in life. Good information will help you make better, more informed decisions."

Then we talk about whatever it is that they are wondering about, from pregnancy to STDs to (heaven help us with this one!) "what's oral sex?" (They were 12, 12, and 14 when that one came up! The youngest two and I actually re-discussed it recently.)

[John]

I agree with Stephen, only he's nicer than I would have been. God does not lie. God has told us what we need to know about sex, that is, that it should be in the covenant of marriage. And as if we needed it, secular science tells us about the benefits of marriage, and the disadvantages of pre-marital sex. I have difficulty being certain about my own mind. I don't trust myself at all. But I do trust God. And in a Christian Church, which supposedly believes in Him, I would expect that the same prayerful entrustment of one's sexuality into the care and requirement of God would take place. I'm disappointed you missed the opportunity to be counter-cultural. They will get the feel-good message from the other youth leaders. It would have been nice if they had heard the Truth from you.

[Stephen]

Hugo:

Teenage pregnancy is a huge problem -- 22% of white and 68% of black babies are born to unwed parents. (This up from 3% and 22% respectively in the 60s.)

Among the outcomes for teenage parents -- significant increases in poverty, dropping out of school, depression, divorce . . . and aside from pregancy all sorts of nasty STDs.

Pragmatism and concern for the well-being of teenagers suggests that waiting is a good thing.

Finally, to argue that ejaculation equals consent to being a father puts your teenage boys in a very precarious situation indeed.

Stephen

[Stephen]

Hugo: "Adultery, Chip, is betrayal of a contract. It turns the adulterer into a liar -- that can't lead to happiness. That's different from pre-marital sex by a long shot."

And pre-marital sex for teenagers has a better chance to lead to happiness? In what way? If the goal is a happy marriage and a fufilling sex-life, social science seems to be supporting the church's traditional sexual ethic.

In addition, many of those who committ adultry do so precisely because they have found happiness elsewhere. Why fidelty to the marriage vows if each individual story must be measured on its own merits? Why is it easier to "hand out a one size fits all moral agenda" here?

Stephen

[Redneck Feminist (drumgurl)]

"Teenage pregnancy is a huge problem -- 22% of white and 68% of black babies are born to unwed parents. (This up from 3% and 22% respectively in the 60s.)"

Unwed does not = teenager. Do you have stats on actual teens? Because lots of 20-and-30-somethings have babies outside of wedlock.