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January 26, 2005

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» On the Matter of Public Scrutiny of Public Candidates from titusonenine
I just finished watching tonight's West Wing which covered primary candidates slogging it out in the wiles of Iowa, land of ethanol speeches. I commented to my wfie at the end that the next Presidential race will be the first on where the full thrott... [Read More]

Comments

La Lubu

Sorry you had to see that Hugo. I thought you had already seen it, and weren't giving the whackos the satisfaction. Don't give it to 'em now.

When I saw the picture, I assumed you had taken some children to the park. These dim bulbs don't see to realize that by accusing you of some perversion, they are playing right into the stereotype that any man who likes and attends to children, must be a pervert. They apparently aren't smart enough to realize that this evil caricature will come up and bite them in the culu, too.

teg

Hugo,

You think there isn't a Gender War?

Hugo Schwyzer

No, I don't believe that there has to be a war. At first, I thought the name-calling was ridiculous. But it has taken its toll, and I see that these tactics are effective at making folks question whether they want to "stay in the game".

I want civil dialogue. It is one thing to say that one's opponent has misogynistic views. I take no offense, for example, at being accused of holding misandrist positions. I may dispute the charge, but it is perfectly valid to challenge the points one's opponents try and make. But to personalize it in the way that a large number of these fellows seem to be doing is profoundly disappointing to me.

Look, I am not going to give up posting pics or writing about men's rights issues. Nor am I going to hunt for photos of my opponents to ridicule. I'm not angry, just sad and hurt and a bit wiser.

No, La Lubu, somehow I missed the image until now.

susan

While the photo was abused in its use and taken out of the context of your weblog, if it makes you feel any better at all, I just happened to see the photo here this past week, and my reaction was more of the "ah, gee," variety. It revealed a man who appears confident, fun-loving, a child at heart, and not afraid of having his masculinity challenged by showing a cute side of his personality.

mikeeusa

Hugo you made yourself a toy for the amusement of children. They fail to learn to respect men from such behavior. You shouldn't be hurt, sticks and stones.

Fred Vincy

Hugo,

You've shown enormous patience and grace despite many uncivil attacks. Don't let it get you down.

Erica

Hugo, don't sweat it! you really shouldn't let these types have any say in your decisions. I saw that insinuation a long time ago and just thought it refelcted how mindlessly low people can hit when they are trying to "win an argument" as opposed to engaging in discussion.

ad hominum might be the oldest one in the book!

mikeeusa

A man shouldn't challenge his masculinity.

Hugo: Perhapse these women say nice thing to you but they would never give you anything, they have no respect for you (though they lie about this). Be their jester no more, all of what they say is hollow.

Trish Wilson

Hugo, don't let the men's rights activists get to you. That's what they want. I know what you're going through first-hand. I don't let them get to me, and they can be relentless. I'm sorry they're piling it on so high for you. That's crass.

Hugo Schwyzer

You're right, Trish -- and thanks Erica, Fred, and Susan. I appreciate it.

I hate playing that game of "he who cares less, wins." I'm not going to hide when I'm hurt, even when it gives schadenfreude to those who dislike me. But I'm not going to pretend that I am being "uniquely" injured, either. Women who speak up endure far worse, I'm well aware.

I don't have much patience with self-pity, either. Suffice it to say I'm over this, but I am still a bit bewildered by the sheer puerility of it.

Amanda

Don't worry about it. The pleasure I get out of reading blogs is that they demonstrate that real people have real opinions that are often well thought out. Your photo album means you're human and nothing more.

I don't know what they are implying, though my initial reaction was that they were doing the schoolyard taunt where any man who shows that he cares about women or children is automatically less than a man. I think it's sad that they are so insecure in their manhood that they have to take it out on those who enjoy their friends and family instead of spending all their time bolstering a fake image of manhood.

annika

i think susan's comment said it best: that picture "revealed a man who appears confident, fun-loving, a child at heart, and not afraid of having his masculinity challenged by showing a cute side of his personality." that's why we love you so much, my friend. Don't let them get to you Hugo. If i may say something crass, i think they're all a bunch of fucking idiots.

TeeHee

http://www.volsunga.co.uk/index.php?p=219#comment-1954

Well worth reading.

Rhesa

I'm sorry to see it degenerate into this, Hugo. I didn't see that picture until I read this post, and I thought it was cute. Apparently all men who use playground equipment for fun are perverts? Er, yeah.

Strange that most of the critics like putting words in your mouth and ours.

Jeff JP

But I'm not going to pretend that I am being "uniquely" injured, either. Women who speak up endure far worse, I'm well aware.

Oh, give that tired old feminist crap a rest, will ya? Look at the people who support you here. They're fellow haters of men. That should tell you a great deal.

Rhesa

Oh, give that tired old feminist crap a rest, will ya? Look at the people who support you here. They're fellow haters of men. That should tell you a great deal.

I rest my case.

La Lubu

Hugo, I'm still wondering when you're going to get tired of Jeff JP, the cowardly hit-and-run artist, who drops by every now and then to throw an insult, yet runs away with his tail between his legs when called out to explain himself. I'm still waiting for an explanation from him on how schools are feminized, from back in November. This is one character who does not have the courage to stand behind his words.

Really. Go back amongst the posts, check out his tripe. Name calling is the only name of his game. The only time he attempted to stick around for anything more than puerile insults was to defend (a.) the effort of your thin female students to starve themselves and demonize food in the "Feminism, Food and Pleasure" post, and (b.) defending the pseudonymous Steve for weighing his girlfriend every week in the "Golden Bears and weekly weigh-ins" post. Every other time, he is flat-out obnoxious and won't formulate an argument to save his life. He's not bringing anything to the table here, and I wish you'd consider taking his plate away.

TeeHee

Ooh, is this the right place to post fawning compliments?

Well, here I go. Ahem. Hi Hugo-- I thought your stint on Sack’s show was simply *briiiiilliant*. What I loved the most was your manic, frenzied scramble to absolve women of all guilt at any price. It simply outperformed any parody I have ever seen. And in the process, you betrayed a darkly comical ambivalence towards abused kids. For you, they were just pawns in a game of blame— only useful as way of exalting your favorite sex. Hilarious. Yes, we can all see exactly what your compassion is worth-- You have only enough empathy for those you deem worthy (and sorry kids, you just don’t measure-up.) Haha, what a kidder!

PS- I love spring-loaded fish too! Very Monty Python of you!

Ralph Luker

Hugo, It's odd, somehow. I linked to those same pictures of you at Cliopatria. It was in a context of observing that you may be the least inhibited of the Cliopatriarchs. The links to them can be hostile ones; they can be friendly ones. I found what they showed about you to be very engaging.

Kendall Harmon

Hugo, sorry this happened. Can you imagine what it will be like for all the candidates for President in the next set of primaries and beyond?

Kendall

Xrlq

Sorry it happened, but a word to the wise: assume anything and everything you post on the web will be mocked, fisked, distorted, PhotoShopped into something completely different, etc. Then be positively surprised by everything that isn't.

assumtions

The idea that a man challenges his masculinity by being able to relate to children is an assertion that is beneath anyone who purports to have an awarness of gender issues. There is no masculine nor feminine side. This is pure social dross. Everyone possess these elements of character that are tradionally defined along social conditioning. Sheesh, l thought you guys were into gender studies and here you are perpetuating social constructs. Has nothing been learned in 40 years?

It is also amusing that you lament the tactics being used by so called MRAs, when all they are doing is following the example of their political foes. Namely, distortion, intellectual dishonesty, appeals to ego, personal attacks and vilification, red herrings, forming a view and then looking for supporting data (information bias). They are essentially a reflection of yourselves, and l suspect that this is at the heart of your annoyance.

mythago

when all they are doing is following the example of their political foes

Right--they would have been reasonable and calm, but those damn feminists led them astray!

And somebody explain this to me slowly here. Men's-rights activists complain that women hog the kids and want all the custody...yet it is shameful for Hugo to play with children?

see wot l mean

'Right--they would have been reasonable and calm, but those damn feminists led them astray!'

See wot l mean... intellectual dishonesty wrapped up in a red herring. 'We do, because they do, because we do' is irrelevant. It just is what it is. Namely, a reflection. Which is not intended as an exoneration of behaviour, merely a comment that the kettles and the pots spend all their time calling each other black. Which to my mind is the essence of politics. Politicians dont care how they achieve power, so long as they do. Its much easier to sway people with tricks and politicans know this.

and,
'And somebody explain this to me slowly here. Men's-rights activists complain that women hog the kids and want all the custody...yet it is shameful for Hugo to play with children?'

ok, s l o w l y,
t h i s i s p u t t i n g
r o u n d p e g s i n
s q u a r e h o l e s.
or for the less slow... making highly tenuous connections. Notwithstanding the flawed assumptions that the MRAs are suggesting that it is shameful to play with kids. That photo just looks like a weak handed slur trying to make fun of the fact that a guy looks like a goose sitting on a child's toy. l'm always looking like a goose myself when l play with the neices and nephews, but l dont lament the people who roll their eyes. l enjoy the fact that playing with kids allows me get away with goofing off and behaving like a 'silly little boy.' l cant understand why hugo would be hurt be wot anyone else thinks.

Darcy

Hugo I am very sorry to hear that you have been hurt by the opposition. There is no excuse for such uncivil behavior.

But if I may share my opinions for a moment... I spent some time this evening reading articles from the Men's News Daily site, and to be quite honest, as a woman, I was NOT offended. I think that they brought up some very valid arguments relating to the victimization of men.

It got me thinking about a "scandal" that happened last year at the middle school where I teach... and if I may share... I would like to know how your readers from both sides feel about what happened. I think that it may (or may not) illustrate what some of the men are feeling.

Last spring one of our female teachers (a divorcee in her late twenties... we'll call her Mary) became pregnant by our assistant principal ( a single - yet committed man in his mid thirties... we'll call him Mike). As neither was prepared to make any long term commitment to the other, Mary had an abortion. What should have remained a private issue between two consenting adults soon turned into a hate fest.

As it turned out, Mike had been "making his rounds" amongst the women of the faculty and the administration for the past couple of years... and had many spurned women ready to take up Mary's cause (even though she never asked them to). Two women in particular, who I will call Carol and Eileen, (Carol a known ex of Mike) saw fit to invade Mike's personnel records and obtain private information which they then used to create a case to the school district of why he should be fired. They even went so far as to contact Mike's girlfriend to inform her of Mary's pregnancy.

While Mary seemed unphased by all of this... Mike was shamed and distraught. Out of desperation, he himself instigated a request to leave the school and be reassigned. In the end... Mike did leave the school, but not honorably. He was transferred to a "desk job" at the district where he is known to be "the bitch" of a couple of district administrators. It is assumed that he will be let go in the near future.

Eileen was also transferred to another school... but in the same capacity, and Carol and Mary remain in their positions... no worse for the wear.

I can't help but think that Mike was the victim in this case... and yes, it was at the hands of women, who stuck their nose where it did not belong. I think society has automatically figured that in cases like these, the man MUST be the "bad guy". Why?

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