Pain and the misprescribed cure

Yes, sharp-eyed readers, there are new pictures of Matilde in her photo album!  This one is my absolute favorite. 

Not much time for blogging at the moment; finals week has begun and I have grading to do, exams to write, and lots of anxious students to meet with.  (I also have a host of emails to return from those same students; some are a bit miffed that I don't return emails on Sundays.  Some things must be sacred, however!)

I should have known better than to link to Manpower in my Friday afternoon post.  The result was predictable:  an avalanche of invective (much of it tinged with homophobia) headed this way.  Feminist bloggers like Sofia and Trish Wilson have been dealing with this far longer than I, and they have endured some stunningly vitriolic attacks.  Perhaps it was just my turn to wade into the fray!

It's tempting to want to respond to personal attacks.  To do so, however, invites more of the same, as my fellow bloggers know all too well.  The last thing I want to do, of course, is bring more attention to the "men's rights movement".  What I did want to do was shift the focus towards the other wings of the movement, particularly those led by pro-feminist men.

Here's a link that may be helpful: Responding to Men's Rights Groups at Xyonline.  Michael Flood, the brave Australian pro-feminist, summarizes the men's rights groups thus:

Men's rights men focus on the costs and destructiveness to men of masculine roles. They dispute the feminist idea that men (or some men) gain power and privilege in society, claiming that both women and men are equally oppressed or limited or even that men are oppressed by women. Men are "success objects" (like women are "sex objects") and burdened as providers, violence against men (through war, work and by women) is endemic and socially tolerated, and men are discriminated against in divorce and child custody proceedings. As far as "men's rights" are concerned, these men believe that men's right to a fair trial in domestic violence cases, to a fair negotiation in custody settlements, and to fair treatment in the media have all been lost.

The men in men's rights groups are typically in their forties and fifties, often divorced or separated, and nearly always heterosexual. In both general men's rights groups and fathers' rights groups, participants often are very angry, bitter and hurting (with good reason, they would say), and they often have gone through deeply painful marriage breakups and custody battles.

Men's rights arguments correctly identify areas of male pain, but misdiagnose their prevalence and their source and thus misprescribe the cure.

The bold section is mine.  I like that. I suspect Flood is right about the near-universal heterosexuality of these fellows, though I also gather that some are considerably younger than forty.  Still, "angry, bitter, and hurting" seems apt.

Flood inspired me to take on Manpower with this:

We need to show that anti-feminist men do not speak for all men.

We also need to defend women's organisations, services and feminism in general from attacks by men's rights forces. Men have an important role to play as allies of feminist organisations, putting ourselves between them and men's rights groups, taking the heat and limiting the extent to which women's energies are used up in responding to these attacks.

Amen.  But Flood also reminded me of my obligation to listen to the real pain that underlies the bitterness and the vitriol, and to acknowledge that as a pro-feminist man committed to male consciousness raising, I have a moral obligation to hear the stories of hurt my brothers are sharing:

We will be better able to respond to men's rights agendas if we have a proper idea of the experiences, needs and fears of the men who support them. This was brought home to me in a confrontation with a very angry and hostile man, a men's rights activist from Melbourne. After two hours of talking, he told me of the effect on him of having being sexually abused as a child by his mother and another woman. I've also heard some men's stories of their ex-wives acting maliciously or dishonestly and of an unsupportive legal system. I did not accept the wider conclusions that such men drew from their experiences, and I assume too that for any one incident (like a custody battle) there will be multiple versions of what happened. But if I want to reach such men at all, I do have to accept that what they describe is their reality for the moment and I have to show that I have heard them.

I believe that it is politically more effective, and ethically appropriate, for us to act with integrity, to be prepared to listen and to deal respectfully with conflict.

So, friends, I'm willing to engage in thoughtful discussion on men's issues.  I'd like it if personal slurs can be avoided (though I am still chuckling over being referred to as a "feminist butt monkey" -- even if it is hetero white male privilege that allows me to dismiss bigotry with a grin).  I'd like it if instead of making blank generalizations, folks grounded their statements in their own histories.  In gender work, sharing one's story honestly and without hatefulness is the admission price to the discussion.

Let me get through some work today, and I'll have more to post.  In the meantime, let's keep the comments section civil.  And anyone posting any unpleasant comments about Matilde the chinchilla will be banned posthaste!

Comments

[NancyP]

how could anyone be unpleasant about a chinchilla?

Missing from the Men's/Father's Rights movement, as typified by the posters to the last entry, is any sense of service to others. No men's shelters, no respite care for single fathers with handicapped kids, no assistance or mentoring of poor boys and young men needing help with literacy, jobs, alcohol/drug rehab, or rehab out of prison, no health drives (eg, blood pressure checks on young African-American men, a population subject to unrecognised serious hypertension).

The main theme seems to be vengeance against women who in the men's mind "betrayed" them. Not very edifying, even if a few of the men have legitimate complaints.

[Hugo]

Well, they ought to come over to All Saints and volunteer to work with the young men with whom I work. Clearly, I'm an unhealthy influence on "my guys"!

[zuzu]

As someone once told me, you can fix the problem or you can fix the blame.

I see the "men's-rights" people as blame-fixers.

[La Lubu]

zuzu, I love that statement. Can I shamelessly steal it from you every chance I get?

[NancyP]

Saw chinchilla pix. How could anyone be mad at a creature that is happy warming your feet? Bigger than a guinea pig, smaller than a cat - does she vocalize like g.p. (my big beef about g.p., along with casual attitude about shitting)?

[Hugo]

The wonderful thing about chinnies is that their droppings are utterly odorless and dry, about the size of Tic-Tacs.

She very rarely makes noises -- little squeaks when annoyed, an occasional hum when she is very happy.

[zuzu]

zuzu, I love that statement. Can I shamelessly steal it from you every chance I get?

Be my guest!

[Sam George]

After reading your article, I am inclined to believe that being a white heterosexual american male is some sort of a crime? Years of biased and partisan profeminist media writings have created an atmosphere hostile to men. Who is to defend the rights of American men? Who will stand up for the American male and show that Pro-Feminist Men do not speak for and represent the American Male. The truth is that Feminists have spread the lie that women are victims in all cases. Now that Men's Groups are calling their bluff and exposing their deceit and malice towards men, the Feminist movement is hitting back.

[Mr Tracy Malloy]

Dear Hugo:
You appear to have not paid enough attention to many of the things on men's rights web sites. I cannot help but notice that men's rights stories usually involve wanting basic human rights and frequently tell the whole truth about feminist's claims of being taken advantage of. The women's rights claims very frequently involve telling less than the whole truth or outright lying about men with full nation wide media coverage. How often do you ever hear that even as far back as 1963 that single USA women on average earn as much as their single male counterparts and where the big drop in wages occurs is when women have children. The solution to this problem: ALL WOMEN STOP HAVING CHILDREN. And how realistic is that?

[mythago]

The solution to this problem: ALL WOMEN STOP HAVING CHILDREN.

Or, ALL MEN START DOING HALF THE CHILDCARE. Which fits nicely with the stated men's-rights agenda of fair and shared custody after divorce, right?

[zuzu]

Or, since we know all those women are just trying to trap men, ALL MEN STOP HAVING SEX WITH WOMEN.

There. Problem solved.

[RC]

Zuzu, did you just recommend withholding sex as blackmail?

[zuzu]

Telling that you would interpret it that way.

[bmmg39]

"The solution to this problem: ALL WOMEN STOP HAVING CHILDREN."

"Or, ALL MEN START DOING HALF THE CHILDCARE. Which fits nicely with the stated men's-rights agenda of fair and shared custody after divorce, right?"

A lot of men would be THRILLED to do half of the childcare, or even all of it. But "paternity leave" is not a phrase that's caught on in our society like "maternity leave" has. Women often take a year or several years off from office work, as part of the "mommy track", to take care of the children. Unfortunately, there is no "daddy track." Men are told, "Sure, go ahead. Take a year or so off. You do realize: you won't be getting that promotion now, right?"

[bmmg39]

"Or, since we know all those women are just trying to trap men, ALL MEN STOP HAVING SEX WITH WOMEN."

Well, you certainly can't blame me for that one, can you...

[Sam George]

Thanks to the latest bio-medical advances women will no longer be required to give birth to children. Women will become REDUNDANT. The only thing which women could do and men could not has been cruelly snatched away from women. Women have arrogated all reproductive rights and justified it by saying that that is the way it is. Now what is left dear NYMOM. The rights you were shouting about are gone. One of the few opportunities to blackmail men is gone.

[zuzu]

Men are told, "Sure, go ahead. Take a year or so off. You do realize: you won't be getting that promotion now, right?"

bmmg, you've just described the mommy track. The job might be waiting, but the career path is likely derailed.

[Connor]

Only when self preserving sexist women share the everyday life and lifestyle depriving burdens alongside men AS EQUALS in the places of war and work representing 52% of the population shall we have equality between the sexes.

Until then, women will remain under-represented across the entire employment spectrum.

[mythago]

Can you translate that from rhetoric into English?

[connor_a]

Well mythago, it seems pretty in pink explanitory to me, lets get those dressed in pink to share the burdens in society.

Why should men alone do the worst jobs of all. Aren't women also equally brave?

NO!

[mythago]

bmmg39, guess which gender enforces that 'daddy track' mentality? (And frankly, I don't know that men would be so thrilled to take up all that childcare. We don't see that women are fighting tooth and nail to stay at home as much as possible, and for good reason. Women have figured out exactly how much status and money attaches to being an at-home-full-time parent, i.e., damn near zero.)

Connor, to which specific "burdens" are you referring? If you've already decided women are not brave I guess there's no point in arguing with you.

[Connor]

mythago,

Show me equal numbers of women WANTING to share the burdens alongside men as true equals in taming nature AND nurture.

When society reaches that position, you'll find women in equal numbers at the top.

BTW, is it true Dr Schwyzer has found sanctury as a "new age" Patriarch in protecting the feminist women from the patriarchal men at large?

You know, those same men who insist on choosing dangerous life threatening jobs so our oppressed women can live and choose life and lifestyle preserving careers and shop under the hell of patriachy.

;-)

[jrogers]

I have just read some of the commwnts and I do see where these arguments are going with each side having a very valid point. However, as a man I do see men's rights being trampled ( divorce - even with the mother having an affair and leaving to go to another state. rarely results in the children being with the father. Instead the mother takes them for a while then decides she can't take care of the kids and the father has to take them after the mother has allowed them to grow up with no supervision and raise them. Then when they are out of control the father has to take all of the blame for the mothers ignorance.) Sorry about the rant. I just want custody of my kids. If someone can help email me jrogers92@juno.com thanks

[Cara Fletcher]

I am backing up the idea that the mothers deserve to have the children after a divorce in most of the cases.And not only because I am a woman.This is a very painful process for both sides but we as women know how to take care of our kids best and nobody can take this from us.There is no cure for the hurted father but it's better for the kid to be with the mother.

[jay]

I agree that normally the kids are better off with the mother. But that is not always the case.