Words, words, words.

Warning: Graphic Language Coming.

I know I've been linking to him a lot lately, but Ampersand has a fine post up today on "gendered insults". It seems that some folks on the blogging left (the famous Atrios the most obvious offender) have been using language that ought to be confined to our brethren on the right: the language of "real men", "pussies", "smack downs". He links to someone I ought to be linking to: Des Femmes, who has these two terrific posts on the subject . Here's a sample:

Rough language isn't the fucking issue. Using "pussy" for "coward" is far more than rough language: it's language that intentionally marks a class of people--women--as weak, inferior, and bad.

These "liberal" people whose posts anger me don't use raghead, kike, nigger, chink, wop, faggot--words that might apply to men. They use words that specifically target women, and their name-calling is a standard technique of establishing psychological control. If they won't even pretend to be nonsexist, you can kiss wage equity goodbye.

UPDATE: I was remiss in not including Lauren from Feministe; she's got a fine post on the subject as well.

Well, amen. Let me add my two or three pennies.

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence. Do we have to stop swearing altogether, they ask?

People like to cuss because it makes them feel powerful. Even for relatively articulate folks it can be difficult to find "normal" words that give the same degree of satisfaction! In our culture, there can be an almost sensual pleasure in unloosing a torrent of profanity. When I was a child of six, I marched around the house saying "fuck", "fuck", "fuck", "fuck". I had no idea what it meant, but I knew it was a bad word and it got quite a reaction. I remember that saying "fuck" made me feel big. Clearly, for some folks in the blogosphere, that desire to feel "big" is irrepressible.

So I tell my students that they will have to find their own way through this complex issue. As for me, I don't cuss much; it wasn't something any of my role models did when I was a child. I do think, however, that if one is going to use these words, one has to save them for "safe places." In environments where you can be certain as to how these words will be received, I think it's sometimes acceptable to cuss with abandon.

But different people have the right to use certain words that others don't. I often think about this story:

My former pastor at All Saints Pasadena, Scott, was and is an avid basketball player. He played in college, and even now, in his late 40s, plays lots of pick-up games. He could often be found on courts in Northwest Pasadena, where he would frequently be the only white man around. He tells the story of the first time he was playing three on three basketball with five black men, and in the heat of the game they all referred to each other as "niggas." At first, he was uncomfortable. Though he knew these men as well as they knew each other (a couple were All Saints parishioners!), he knew perfectly well he could never use that word himself. He understood that the "n" word, when used by black men for each other, has an infinitely different set of meanings than when used by a white man. Scott said that words like this were "in-the-family" words -- they could be used freely and safely by insiders who would understand the intent of the speaker. As much as his fellow players liked and respected and trusted him, Scott knew that as a white man, he could never be so much a part of "the family" that he could use the "n" word as a term of endearment. Never.

Scott's realization about the "n" word applies just as equally to gender-based insults. I think intent counts for only a little in life. As Amp said today:

I am saying the question we should be asking ourselves is not "am I personally pure and good of heart?" but "is what I'm doing, regardless of my good intent, contributing to the problem?"

When folks hear us speak, they hear us speak not as disembodied persons but as men and women, white and black and Asian and Latino, gay and straight and bi and rich and poor and so forth. This is evidently true in the blogosphere. Thus any man who uses the word "pussy" for another man opens himself to the charge of misogyny, regardless of his intent. Any white person who uses the "n" word opens himself or herself to the charge of bigotry, regardless again of intent. Can "insiders" use this language? Yes. When feminists publish Bitch Magazine, I honor their goal of redefining that word. But I cannot ever use that word safely.

Of course, followed logically, this means that straight white men will have fewer opportunities to cuss than other folks. Then again, we don't know what it is to be injured by words that target our heterosexuality, our whiteness, our maleness. Resisting the temptation to use words that others can speak or write is hardly a great sacrifice -- rather, it's a small but significant way of acknowledging our profound privilege.

Comments

[Amanda]

Okay, etymology influences the meaning through use. For instance, while one may not know that "sucker" was orginally a derogatory term for a gay man, the connotation of it as someone who passively gets "abused", if you will, has stuck to the word. If "sucker" had originally meant say, a straight man who killed dragons, it's unlikely that we would be using it as a derogatory term today.
"Sinister" is a perfect example. If left-handed people were not considered evil back in the day, the word "sinister" would have fallen out of usage completely. Etymology is important.
The way that denotation and connotation work together in the evolution of a word is not actually that simple. More importantly, it doesn't make cruel insults less insulting. ;)

[graham]

Astarte,

I think you've misread what some of the men in this thread are saying; but I'll speak only for myself. I'm not - basically or otherwise - telling you that you shouldn't feel uncomfortable when men use these words. If you want to feel uncomfortable, go right ahead! :o) What I'm actually saying is, don't tell *me* that I should feel uncomfortable or tell me that I'm saying something that, actually, I'm not.

"So ladies, perhaps if we just started pointing out how small a dick these men must have, they'll get the point (no pun intended)."

Sigh. I'm trying to have a conversation and share an opinion. If that's not allowed - presumably because you're view is just right and cannot be challenged - please tell me and I'll shut up. I think I have an average sized dick, but that's just a guess. Not really sure, at all, what that has to do with the conversation. Personally, I wouldn't bat an eye-lid if you called me a "dick."

If using a word makes someone uncomfortable, sure we shouldn't use it. That goes for dick, tw*t, prat. But I don't think that was the issue here.

Forgive me for my gratuitous words. I'm just a man. ;o)

[Tara]

I thought I had something original to say but it turns out I don't, so thanks to Amanda for saying it and saying it well.

Oh yeah, I would be offended by a gay man using the word bitch. But maybe that's because I grew up with gay fathers and know first hand how insiduously deep sexism can infiltrate the "gay psyche" and how much damage it can do.

[Lauren]

Unfortunately, interpreted meaning is not dictated by the intent of the speaker after it has left the speaker's mouth. On other words, one must choose his or her words wisely, and accept that for years now bawdy language is no longer considered the height of irony.

I've written some more about this on my blog as well.

And Graham, I'm pleased to know that your penis is of an average size. Honesty goes far nowadays. ;)

[Astarte]

So, Graham, you mistook what I said. Would that be my fault for not specifically stating that I meant men who use 'pussy' in nearly every blog post, or your fault for not understanding that I didn't mean you, specifically? It was an illustrative example. Did it make you feel uncomfortable? Probably not the way that words like 'twat', 'pussy', 'bitch' and 'cunt' make me feel uncomfortable, but I don't expect you to understand that.

I do, however, expect you to understand it when I explain that it makes me feel odd and uncomfortable to hear you saying those words. As I stated before, that leaves you with a choice as to whether or not to use that word.

So far, in this comment thread (Hugo aside), I've seen a lot of women saying it makes them uncomfortable and men saying that it doesn't make *them* uncomfortable, and that it's the woman's fault for taking it personally.

That really illustrates the point better than any rhetoric ever could.

[Hugo]

Again, I think white men in this country have a special responsibility to recognize that the same words affect different people in different ways. My black friends can call each other "nigga" in an affirming way. My skin color makes that impossible for me. I don't resent that, I simply accept that. When I use "cunt" (to pick what most folks think of as the most inflammatory of the genital-based, gender-specific words) to describe anyone, it is likely to be heard differently than if it were used by a woman. I've used it twice in my life: both when I was younger, both when filled with blinding rage. I meant it to hurt. I deeply regret that.

I don't see how my use of the word in any context (with the possible exception of this discussion on this blog) could be safe from misinterpretation.

Graham, you may not be saying something that you're not -- but that doesn't stop folks from HEARING you say something very different from what you meant to say. It's not good enough to mean well. To really be engaged in civilizing the culture, we have to be rigorously attentive, to the best of our flawed abilities, to what others hear us say. Darned high standard, indeed.

[Amanda]

Wow, Graham, your offense at the small-dick comment--
*choking up*

If I tell a guy he has a small dick, I'm guessing that's his fault for being offended, then?

[graham]

Astarte,

Please - and this is a genuine request - don't assume that I a sexist, discourteous, insensitive thug. Please don't transfer onto me what you expect a man to be thinking and saying.

Why don't you expect me to understand? Because I'm a man? Personally, I wouldn't even type the word cu next tuesday, so it's not like you have a monopoly on feeling uncomfortable.

You'll have to tell me honestly if there is even any point in me saying anything in this debate. I'm trying to give an alternative viewpoint, but it seems as if the verdict has already been announced.

I respect that it makes you feel uncomfortable to hear me say those words. That's why I would never say them in front of you, or - I think - any woman. *But,* I'm trying to suggest that I could use those words when playfully arguing with my brother and I think it's possible that to do so might not *necessarilly* be sexist.

If I came across as saying that it's a woman's fault for taking such things personally, then I apologise; that was not my intent. I'm talking in the abstract and not envisioning actually using such phrases (or any others) in front of those they might offend.

Bless you.

[Astarte]

I've always found it insulting for Christians to bless non-Christians, so please don't. Also, please don't lay your pre-disposed definitions of feminism on me. I don't hate all men, and I don't expect all men to act a different way. If that were the case, I wouldn't think so highly of Hugo as, after all, he is a man.

I simply made the observation that in this comment thread in particular, the men are trying to downplay it as not being that big of a deal, while the women have a problem with it. And, yes, that includes the aforementioned play of playing around with your little brother. Just because you don't say the insult to a woman's face does not mean that it is all the more valid, and yes, definitions matter.

If women weren't disparaged through language like this to make men seem less 'manly' at one point in time, you wouldn't have 'twat' to say to your kid brother. In other words, it doesn't matter what *you* think, it matters what the disparaged or upset party thinks. In this case, that disparaged party are women as a whole.

To me, it takes someone who is moreso a 'man' to be able to edit his language around -anyone-, male or female, to avoid words that are meant to hurt not just a person, but an entire gender of people.

You said:

I personally think it's bollocks (not a male insult but a bodily one) when people complain that male bloggers are somehow offended when women question the use of these female parts as swear words. Sure women bloggers can question it, but can male bloggers question their questioning of it, or do I just sit back and assume that you're right?

And you're welcome to, but I have a right to question your questioning of the question. I simply don't understand how anyone could justify the use of these words in ANY context; period. The justifications you've given are flimsy at best; that it's okay so long as it isn't in the earshot of women.

You also said:

But if I can call my brother by both male and female body parts - with neither suggesting that he is stronger for being a man or weaker for being a woman - what's the problem? Let me re-phrase that, does there need to be a problem?

What you're completely failing to do is to stop and realize WHY those words are considered an insult. Sure, you may not MEAN them that way, but there's a clear reason why they are insults. Maybe you could think of a more creative way to insult someone, and start a whole new trend.

[Astarte]

Oh yeah, and yes, I don't expect you to understand what it feels like to hear someone call someone else a pussy or cunt when you're a man. You literally have to /be/ a woman in order to understand that. I'm sorry if you feel that's sexist, but it's true.

If only all men could spend about a week as a woman, I think we'd have this sexism thing tied up neatly.

[Hugo]

"If only all men could spend about a week as a woman, I think we'd have this sexism thing tied up neatly."

Okay, whose got the apron strings?

[Astarte]

It'd have to be the RIGHT week, of course; out of the month, that is. Hell, part of the reason I hope reincarnation is real is because I've always wanted to come back as a guy just to see what it was like. Call me weird. :)

And are you going to tie up sexism with the apron? :)

[graham]

Astarte, I also call my brother a dick, a cock, a knob, a tit, a wanker, and a snotty-nosed little shit (no offense meant to either excrement or those currently suffering from colds).

I think I'll duck out at this point as I'm clearly not coming across very well.

Please forgive me if I've come across as obnoxious. Shit, I've tried not to but even my friendly sign-off is apparently offensive. My problem is that for 9 years I've suffered from a serious mental illness and can flip out a little too easily. I'm also fat and bald and stutter. But I probably know nothing about the kind of suffering that a woman has to go thru. (Personally, if I could come back again, I wouldn't.)

Feel free to have the last word on this, but does the following not strike you as just a little ironic: "If only all men could spend about a week as a woman, I think we'd have this sexism thing tied up neatly."

[Astarte]

Ummm... no, and I feel sorry for your brother.

So, I wouldn't pretend to know what it would be like to live for nine years with a mental illness, flip out, be fat, bald and stutter. Yet, you think all that makes it okay for you to pretend to know what it's like to be a woman hearing 'pussy' thrown about?

[mythago]

I don't think kids will infer misogyny, either.

There's a bit of difference between little kids calling each other "weiners" (because they're at the age when body parts are funny), and adults using slang for genitals. For one thing, adults are very clear about which gender they mean and to whom it is applied. In the US, you don't call a man "cunt." That's a term you call a woman, to imply that she is a bitch, only way more so. If you call a man a "pussy," you're implying that he is cowardly and unmanly. Call a woman "pussy"--no article--and you're saying that's all she is, a receptacle for sex.

Whereas "dick" or "prick" are exclusively applied to men, and mean the guy in question is complete and utter jerk.

So I think you can compare "cunt" and "prick" as gendered terms of more or less equivalent meaning. "Pussy" is something else entirely.

[Xrlq]

In the US, you don't call a man "cunt."

Some do. One could even call a woman a "pussy," if the idea was to stress that she's really, really deferential, to a point that is unusal even for women.

Some of the commenters are reading way, way too much into this stuff. Want to be offended by foul language? Fine, be offended over that. But all this "oppression" nonsense is getting sillier and sillier by the comment. To save time, maybe I should point out that calling someone a bastard or an S.O.B. does not imply anything about his parents, calling him a shithead does not imply that his cranial cavity actually contains feces, and calling him mofo certainly does not imply that he foes his mo.

[Astarte]

Oh, I know, all of this thinking before we speak is too intellectually elite for conservatives.

[Crys T]

Re Aurora's comments about the UK: though I'm not British, I have lived here for several years now. Yes, those words are used with a lot more abandon here than in the US, but to imply that means there's no misogynist baggage applied to them is untrue. British society is rife with misogyny, and feminism in any form is nearly always meet with extreme hostility.

You call someone a c*nt because everyone knows what a nasty, slimy, dirty thing a c*nt is.

You call someone a tit because tits are silly and foolish.

And to be honest, I'm getting sick of people pointing out that "dick" & "prick" are also used as insults. MEN are the ones who started using them, not women, and also MEN are the ones who started using words referring to females and their body parts. So, the way I see it, it's MEN who need to take responsibility. If "dick" doesn't offend them, that's their business, but "pussy" offends ME.

[Amanda]

And if I call a man a pencildick, then, it doesn't actually mean anything about the size of his dick?

[Xrlq]

Of course not, but more importantly, it certainly doesn't mean you're a man-hater just because you chose to make reference to male genitalia while insulting him.

One last comment from this self-hating man. I recently banned a user for being a prick, but I can't picture myself ever banning anyone just for being a pussy.

[Amanda]

You are misunderstanding if you think that we are arguing that someone *hates* women if he calls a man a pussy. Lots of otherwise nice men say it, because they don't realize it's hurtful. We know that we are not going to cause men who hate women to reconsider saying insulting things about women, but we can get men who are saying sexist things thoughtlessly to consider exactly what it means to say such things.

[Xrlq]

Fair enough. In that case, my last argument wasn't really meant for you. Hugo did use the words "hatred" and "misogyny" in an earlier comment in this thread, however, and argued on other occasions that society condemns cowardice more strongly than offensive or even downright evil behavior. Those were the points I was responding to.

I know I said my last comment was going to be my last...

[Amanda]

Misogyny does mean hatred of women, but as human beings are complex, hatred of women can co-exist with loving of women and even with being a woman.

[mythago]

Some do.

In which part of the US is it typical for "cunt" to be used for men and women alike, with the same meaning, as "asshole" is?

I'm sorry you're so wedded to the Only Whiners Believe In Oppression mantra that you run from any discussion of gendered insults.

[Merlin Cafarella]

I feel as though perhaps this topic might be getting a bit muddled. now,I enter the fray...

Communication consists of a Sender(me), a message, and a reciever(whoever)
The only effects that alter that communication are static(room noise, ect) and the communicative return from the reciever.

Thus, If I(sender) call my best friend(reciever) a cocksucker(message)and he understands that I mean "I love you man..." its all cool.

Should I(sender) call a stranger(reciever) a nerd(message) He will not understand that I am complimenting him, and it contains far more offense, despite not being bound to the genital arena.

It is acceptable for me, a white, strait, male, to use the terms nigger, faggot, or cunt, even in an offensive manner. I should not be, and am not, ashamed or trained to censor myself. It is awareness of who your intended audience is, and who your unintended audience may be that is the most important aspect of the whole deal

@`~
Merlin