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April 20, 2004

Comments

The Angry Clam

Yeah.

As I told Boi via email, I wish that Pepperdine would just let the kid have his club, because this argument is just dumb. It's also because we on the right end of things often gripe about colleges shafting OUR clubs, and I fail to see how this is, fundamentally, different (except insofar as Pepperdine is explicitly committed to positions opposed to that of the club, whereas most universities are not explicitly commited to one political ideology- see New College of California for one of several exceptions).

And, generally, I'm rather wary of telling private institutions, education and otherwise, what to do. Public universities, however, I'm very comfortable with doing so.

That said, I think that you have a very good point about the difference between what's termed "homophobia" and actual prejudice, although I'm certain that the rejoinder is very likely that, all the arguments about tradition and belief aside, the base is still as irrational as the guy who simply hates homosexuals as a reaction.

I don't buy it, but that's what I suspect.

Jonathan Dresner

Just for fun, I looked up the list of approved student clubs: http://seaver.pepperdine.edu/studentaffairs/studentactivities/studentorganizations/icc.htm

I'm not sure what "Riptide" and the "Swashbuckler Society" do, but the rest of the list is pretty apolitical. There are the usual political party affiliates, and a couple of others with progressive, but broad, agendas, but nothing that is narrowly political in a way which a good Christian school could object to. So clearly there's either some self-selection or this is standard operating procedure.

d-rod

I guess it depends on how much of the New Testament one regards as accurate and reliable. Is it 90% reliable? 65 percent? The Scriptures are pretty consistent in condemning homosexuality, so what a painful theological dilemma it has become to unravel the mystery and fit it into our own current context. At least were moving forward from that day so long ago when most Christians believed G_d will stop the AIDS epidemic (if it is his will), and in the meantime it is G_d's punishment for them having willing chosen a sinful lifestlye.

John

In fear and trembling, I ask the question "What is the other "Q" for in "GLBTQQ"? (I assume one "Q" is "questioning"?) Or don't I want to know ;-)? Thanks for the conclusion tho'-At least some in the liberal camp are prepared to engage rather than name-call. (Although not many, alas!) (And before someone says it's worse in the conservative camp, it's not. We've been begging for a theological debate since there was a liberal wing at all, and have only got slogans like "Permanant, faithful, stable")

Hugo

The two "q's" are for Queer and Questioning. The use of the word Queer is highly controversial even within the LGBTQQ community; older folks find it to be a pejorative; younger folks tend to embrace it.

Elizabeth

This makes me consider my own private college, which I never thought of as liberal. It is a Presbyterian school, but when I attended there was a group called PRiDE (People Reaffirming Identity Differences and Educating) which was basically a group for the GLBT community at my school (sponsored by student's activity fees). I can't find if this group is still in existence or not. As far as I know, we never had any problems with people arguing the funding of the group, as the Student Assembly approved their organization. Maybe my school wasn't as conservative as I thought.

annika

Why such an "in your face" name? Why not, like at most schools, just call it the gay and lesbian students association or something like that? No wonder heterosexuals tend to have defensive knee jerk reactions. They're tired of having to deny that they're bigots.

Hugo

I'm with you on that one, annika... doesn't make sense to infuriate potential allies. I always dislike polemical names for groups, like Taxpayers for Common Sense or the like...

The Angry Clam

Unless I'm mistaken, "Students Against Homophobia" was his second attempt to start a club, after something along the lines of the Pepperdine Gay Alliance or whatnot was rejected as "promoting homosexuality."

His reasoning was that a name like this would be more immune to that charge than something involving "pride" or whathaveyou.

annika

Maybe something more innocuous and cryptic like "Log Cabin Pepperdinians."

i guess their mascot is the Waves, so maybe "Log Cabin Waves" would be good.

Hugo

Early gay rights organizations always took VERY obscure names (Society for Human Freedom, the Mattachine Society, the Daughters of Bilitis); a return to that tradition may be necessary!

Joy Paul

Thanks for speaking up for this cause. You seem to know more about U.S. gay culture history than even 98% of the gay community! I, too, believe that God accepts being gay as something blessed by God, not just tolerated.

Chrissy

I think that if someone simply doesn't understand or approve of homosexuality, that's what it is. But when people start making policies around gay exclusion, that's a phobia. When people go out of their way to amend a constitution or when they preoccupy themselves with gayness during a sermon, that's a phobia. When people consume themselves with making sure that people like me don't "take over" for one reason or another, that's a phobia. People are free to dislike me for being gay -- their loss -- but I'd appreciate if they'd keep their distaste for me their own business. Pushing their views onto me via governmental policy is simply unfair.

As for Pepperdine.. I think their actions are archaic but if they aren't receiving governmental funding they should be free to do as they please (so long as they don't break employment and housing laws). I think our only course of action is to change whats in their hearts.

tb

In response to permalink's comments concerning Pepperdine. I am an MBA student at Pepperdine University. I enjoy the program and have had a fine time as a lesbian and as a wave. However, to say that "Christians" have the right to continue their homophobic beliefs, is insulting at best. Christians have used the bible to allow judgements against women (they used the bible to reason burning women alive), african-americans (they used the bible to quote that God believed in slavery and that black people and white people should not marry- the KKK still preaches this), and the Nazis, who called themselves Christians, used the bible to murder Jews and Homosexuals. Forgive me, but it is not reasonable to "allow" these so called "Christians" to continue to believe homophobia is reasonable. Martin L King Jr had to fight for a long time against these same types of people, or as you call them, "Christians" to not use the bible as a tool for racism. The most upsetting thing in our world today is that the African-American community leads the bandwagon in gay-bashing. Recently, an African-American minister in GA said that he would join up with the KKK in their hatred of the "fags". As a straight man, I am sure you did not spend your childhood fearing being found out and murdered. I come from a small town in the App Mountains of North Carolina. I think you have no idea what it is like to live as an outsider. However, what I have learned as an other is that real believers of Christ are kind and loving. Real believers of Christ appreciate love wherever it may be found.

tb

In response to permalink's comments concerning Pepperdine. I am an MBA student at Pepperdine University. I enjoy the program and have had a fine time as a lesbian and as a wave. However, to say that "Christians" have the right to continue their homophobic beliefs, is insulting at best. Christians have used the bible to allow judgements against women (they used the bible to reason burning women alive), african-americans (they used the bible to quote that God believed in slavery and that black people and white people should not marry- the KKK still preaches this), and the Nazis, who called themselves Christians, used the bible to murder Jews and Homosexuals. Forgive me, but it is not reasonable to "allow" these so called "Christians" to continue to believe homophobia is reasonable. Martin L King Jr had to fight for a long time against these same types of people, or as you call them, "Christians" to not use the bible as a tool for racism. The most upsetting thing in our world today is that the African-American community leads the bandwagon in gay-bashing. Recently, an African-American minister in GA said that he would join up with the KKK in their hatred of the "fags". As a straight man, I am sure you did not spend your childhood fearing being found out and murdered. I come from a small town in the App Mountains of North Carolina. I think you have no idea what it is like to live as an outsider. However, what I have learned as an other is that real believers of Christ are kind and loving. Real believers of Christ appreciate love wherever it may be found.

jerald

I don't listen over attentively to what people say a lot of the time. Rather, I focus on what they do. Banning the communication of respectful people from meeting on the campus is indeed an act of hatred, and it is so because of the messages sent that support discrimination, and crimes of prejudice, including firing workers, excommunication from family and community, and even violence. There's just no end to this hatred, the stupidities, and the hurtfulness of the crazy religious nuckleheads. Fortunately, outside of the fundamentalist camps of Pepperdine and Patrick Henry College For Homeskilled Children, people are brave enough to learn from their experiences in the world, and come to know affection from gay men and women.

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